What is Anti-semitism? Is it mostly an issue in England in UK?

[berrymummy11]

Just this really. I live in NI and we have our own religious based issues so Anti semitism isn't discussed here.

Why do people discriminate against Jewish people and is it a bigger issue in England?

TIA

Antisemitism is complex. Very few people in England would say that they hate Jews and virtually nobody (except for the far right and Islamic fundamentalists) denies the Holocaust: most antisemitism is covert and institutional. So the belief that Jews have disproportionate control of of influence over financial and political systems; accusing Jews of being more loyal towards Israel than towards their home state; holding Jews collectively responsible for the problems in Palestine and the Middle East or drawing comparisons between political ideology in modern day Israel and Nazi Germany; accusing Jews of “milking” the Holocaust for collective sympathy or to distract from Israeli politics;

Then there are nuances: at what point does criticism of Israel become criticism of Zionism and then criticism of Jewish beliefs and then of Jews and antisemitic? Is boycotting of kosher meat or calling for kosher slaughter to be banned antisemitic?

To add - most people can identify other forms of racism and xenophobia (like accusing dark people of coming over here and stealing our jobs and our benefits and trying to make us all have Sharia law) as the words of people who are not very clever. Modern day antisemitism is more dangerous and insidious because it hooks into “intelligent” arguments around politics and socioeconomics and foreign policy, and clever, educated, supposedly left-wing people claim to be pro-Palestine in their thinking, but actually use this agenda to spread antisemitic beliefs.

Oh! I'm still not sure I really understand. I assume it is not a straightforward as things here. It is something I probably need to read more on.

Republicans often wave Palestinian flags at rallies in NI.

The left wing (and I'm left wing) tend to be more anti-semitic because Jews are somehow seen to be congenitally richer than anyone else and so are associated with banking, fat cats etc etc.

The Israel/Palestine thing is just an excuse to carry that on without appearing racist as far as I can see.

If it's any consolation, it bemuses me too OP. I don't get why being racist against black people (for example) gets called out automatically, but anti sematism is just met with a shrug. I appreciate its got a lot of historical context, but so has homophobia. If we can work on that, we can work on this.

I think people (usually ones who have never seen proper anti-Semitism) think that being anti-Israel is the same as being anti-Jewish.

I’m Jewish. I am also fairly anti-Israel (I love Israel and Israeli people, but I don’t support a lot of the far right politics of the state of Israel). Fwiw, I’m also American by birth (but don’t live there anymore), and I don’t support the wacky fascist far right politics of the US either (though I love my American family and friends).

I’m about as far leftist as you can get not exactly a fat cat Jew at all. And to be honest, I’ve never experienced any anti-Semitism in the UK (beyond maybe just the hardcore Christian just want to convert everyone to Jesus, don’t care if you have a religion, it’s not good enough kind). I have experienced it in the US, which is a much more difficult place to be a Jew.

Anti-semitism as someone said at its heart is just racism. It has particular nuances (eg nonsense about Jews controlling the media/banking/communism) but it’s really just people hating people who are different from them. Same as for Asian people, Muslims, Black people, etc

ComtesseDeSpair puts it very well I think.

I suppose it’s like sectarianism too. People build up all sorts of stereotypes and nonsense about another group of people.

Anti semitism isn't just an issue in England
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-47937102

It's here in NI too. And that's only the stuff caught on camera.

Have you missed attacks on immigrant families who are driven our of their homes and the Islamic centre in Ards as well?

It's quite old as prejudices go, been around in various guises in Europe for centuries. Comes up under different hate slogans every now and then.

It's having a bizarre little moment just now with the Left, but on the whole it's not currently one of the UK's most pressing tensions, luckily.

anti-Semitism is a firm of propaganda created to segregate and de-humanise a group of people, so that the mainstream can believe the injustices and abuses done to them are deserved. This allows regular ordinary people not to feel guilty about what has been done to whole group of people because a fake new propaganda piece is widely believed and helps to perpetuated those beliefs. It's only 74 years ago when the mass murder of jews stopped in Europe. Why did it occur? The majority bought into the anti-Semitic propaganda and felt comfortable knowing that it was occurring because they did not see one group of human beings being the same as themselves. As such they tacitly and overly allowed murder, imprisonment and torture to occurs because that group of people were not like them and they deserved it. If you think like that about any group of people you are part of the problem.

It is interesting that in the last 5 years the left has grown virulently anti-Semitic and the right islamophobic. Much if6 socialism and the labour party from it's inception was based on socialist Zionism and British Jewry had a major part in the growth of the labour movement and socialism in the early 20th century. Yet now the Labour party appears to be buying into some grotesque tropes and propaganda. I've met a number of grass roots labour members who have forgotten history and bought into this garbage. In part, it's propelled by the humanitarian crisis in Palestine which is then used to fuel nascent Christian anti-Semitism. You also have to face that problem that only until very recently that was the root of anti-Semitism, now its switched to Islam, yet again filed by the Palestinian humanitarian crisis and before someone crys Israel, consider how little the government's of Egypt, Jordan and Saudi have gone to aid the Palestinian people.

To put it in some of the terminology surrounding the problems in NI, every one has the right to self determination, to civil rights and for the freedoms held by the majority without fear of being abused, demonised and degraded.

Going right back, the crusaders slaughtered Jews on their way across Europe as retribution for murdering Christ, which shows just how long it has been around for.

Historically Christians were forbidden from lending money, I think, and Jews were banned from many other professions. Some therefore took to lending money and these few were visibly richer as a result, this breeding jealousy and hatred.

I have very rarely directly heard anything anti-Semitic in the UK but my Eastern European relatives throw off-hand comments around with worrying regularity for a country that hasn’t had many Jewish people for the best part of a century. Speculation about whether someone is Jewish, that’s why they have money etc. They wouldn’t ask them direct because it would be so insulting.

There is anti-semitism in the UK of course but I don’t think it’s as ingrained in our culture as in many other countries.

People try and dress it up as criticism of Israeli foreign policy. That's bollocks. There are plenty of Israelis in Israel who criticise Israeli foreign policy.
In my experience, you were least likely to encounter it in UK until recently. I'm old with a Jewish Dad. I've travelled and worked in eastern and Western Europe and saw it a lot. It used to be a relief to come home and get away from it. Not any more. Fucking disgrace.

Anti-semitism started way before Christianity - kicked off in ancient Greece.

Bullets on this Wiki give you a general idea of the timeline - morphs from racial to religious to political discrimination through the centuries.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism

Am I right in thinking Jews lives peacefully in the Middle East and other Muslim countries until the creation of Palestine? Much more accepted than in Europe.

AustrianSnow I think that’s possibly slightly naive, and just because one nationality is less overtly racist, doesn’t mean the racism isn’t there. I think there are ideas that are extremely engrained in many of us, and that if you were to say to us “are you anti Semitic?” (Or racist in any way whatsoever), then we’d absolutely say no. But there is stuff that seeps in during childhood that you unconsciously think, bias that you unconsciously have. I still feel a kind of gut-wrenching horror when I remember making a flippant comment about something 30 years ago and a Jewish friend pointed out to me what I was actually implying about him. And it has made me aware that all of us do make pre-judgements based on things such as ethnicity - it is what humans are programmed to do - and we all have to actively endeavour to avoid doing that.

I will come and recommend this book on every thread asking about anti Semitism forever:
www.amazon.co.uk/Devil-Jews-Medieval-Conception-Anti-Semitism/dp/0827602278/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&keywords=The+devil+and+the+Jews&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1561929551&sr=8-1

Austriansnow

In Iran there is a monument to Jewish soldiers who died during the Iraq Iran war

www.timesofisrael.com/iran-unveils-monument-for-fallen-jewish-iranian-soldiers/

Morocco to Yemen large Jewish communities thrived up until the mid 50's as well as Iraq,Iran and Syria. Interestingly Turkey was the one country where the primary violence occured to a post war Jewish community in the middle East.

It's also interesting that given that the Jewish population of Israel is smaller than London on a Monday morning, that from Eastern and Central Europe to the middle East a lot of people want to see Israel "removed". Let's also realise that it wasn't until three years ago the global Jewish population reached pre Holocaust level of 19 million people globally.

That alone bears some thinking about.

disneyspendingmoney are you saying that there are more Jewish people in London than in Israel, or that the entire population of London is bigger than the Jewish population of Israel?

Fascinating, Disney. I hadn’t realised the global population was still so small.

No that's pretty evidently not the case the entire population of London irrespective of background. And it was an illustrative comment to out into perspective the size of populations we are talking about. A globally miniscule one.