If you are a Tory part member and would vote for Boris, does the fact he lies just not bother you?

[HellInAHandCartThatsWhat]

On Marr show yesterday...Liam Fox on Boris Johnson’s ‘GATT 24’ #Brexit claims: “It isn’t true, that’s the problem”

The trade secretary tells #Marr that the argument from Boris Johnson, that we can use world trade rules to avoid tariffs after Brexit, “isn’t true”

'just, fair and progressive' might seem to others to 'harm, damage and divide'. I think your 'just, fair and progressive' societies have lead directly to Brexit and Trump, and those that led us there can't seem to grasp that not everyone wants to be 'progressive', and that their idea of 'just and fair' doesn't chime with that of a good proportion of the electorate.

I totally agree with this. I've lived in other countries outside the EU, places which many of you would label as unjust, unfair and not progressive but the truth is everyone there was much happier, got along better with other races and religions and there was less racial tension than here.

*not everyone wants to be 'progressive'

I think most people want progression but silencing peoples concerns and not addressing them isn't progression, its oppression.

scaryteacher that was actually a terrific analysis.

I do agree that many people now will keep their views to themselves if they're aware it doesn't chime with the currently accepted wisdom of the commentariat. But we still have a vote - sorry, but that's democracy! - and make our views known, without loudly banging on about it, in the ballot box. Boris will be elected by Tories because not everyone agrees, no matter how often you say it, that he's "a racist prick", for example.

So, I've been ruminating on your posts (not sure if this is the done thing here but I'm a very slow reactionary) and I'm left with the following. We must have different concepts of justice and progress. I'm particularly referring to an era where authority was privileged, white and male. Women in public life were perceived as the play things or appendages of men and unlikely to gain influence unless supporting the dominant view. The less well off or connected you were the less autonomy you had and the more injustice you experienced. When that was challenged, people were dismissed and/or ridiculed, sometimes mistreated. This is not a million miles away in our history - I grew up in the 70s, remember it well. In the following decades there were real steps made to balance out power, legislatively and socially. Institutions became not only accountable for discrimination but had to pre-empt it and in the private sector as well as the statutory sector. Emphasis on redress because of the biased past. The 'fight' for equality almost normalised. For me, the biggest shift was in society aiming to consider someone an equal at the start. Yes, I know, terribly over-simplified but hopefully you see where my argument stems from. Scary, I totally take on your point about how voters, like USA, have become tired of the establishment and potential dynasties and just want to something different ( more oversimplification I know). Thing is, Boris is not really a rebellious choice, he's from the old elite and what he says and does goes back to the older times. I'm really not tired of equality, we're not finished yet, I'm not prepared to go back and hear the attitudes or live them. This is not a rebellion from the thought police, this is an establishment that wants its power back. That's the point of my despair. Nasi, the comment about where here else living in harmony without the need for it to be protected is a big and unqualified statement. I've worked in human rights for 20 years and beg to differ.

That confusing bit should read 'everywhere else'

Scaryteacher A brilliant post. Superb summary.

If I read one more post from someone saying how likeable Boris is and how her will liven up politics I might need to lie down in a dark room.
See how likeable he is when he fucks this country up in an even worse state than it is. I take it the 'likeable chap' brigade on here have no financial worries or concerns? Or social conscience?

If you have neither of these then yes, Boris is a very likeable chap who will get us all up waving our union Jack's and sticking our 2 fingers up to the bossy prigs in the EU.

Scaryteachers post might be correct in England, but how do you explain Scotland voting overwhelmingly to remain??
I don't agree with Scaryteachers post. I think the underdogs, the people who feel left out and not listened to are being fed a load of downright crap and lies to keep them in their place.
The tragedy of brexit and trump is the working class are playing right into the hands of the rich elite they think they are clocking a snoop to. And the rich elite are laughing all the way to the bank.

Max Hastings clearly persona non grata at Torygraph Towers these days.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minister-tory-party-britain

Interesting that Murdoch's rags are going for Johnson, perhaps reward for Hunt who did so much for them when he took over the enquiries after Cable was stung, by the Telegraph.

Ooooo bit it is wheels within wheels....