TIL fare evasion prosecution. Help!

[NotExactlyHappyToHelp]

Ok I’ll try to keep this short.

A while ago I purchased a ticket for a train journey via trainline app. Activated it before I got on the train. On board the train I was asked to show my ticket by a Transport for Wales inspector. App wouldn’t load and kept crashing. I apologised and offered to buy a ticket from the conductor and then contact trainline and get a refund later on. My offer was refused and I was asked for my details.

Had a letter a month or so later telling me to pay a £65 fine (train fare was under a tenner) or appeal so I emailed them with proof of ticket purchase (screenshot of the app) plus a screenshot of my online banking showing the fare being taken out of my account.

I’ve just had a letter back saying my appeal was denied. Pay up or go to Magistrates Court.

Is there anything I can do here or should I just pay the fine? I’m pretty cross because I did have a valid ticket for the journey and have proof so I don’t know how they can deny my appeal.

Take this to social media, to transport for wales and the company you bought the ticket from.

Well, if I had definite proof of purchase I'd be inclined to go to court and argue it. But first I'd read the small print carefully; the terms and conditions might say something like 'you must have purchased and be able to show on demand a valid ticket' in which case you're not in such a good place. Your offer to pay might help but do you have a witness to that?

Go for social media .

This is ridiculous

The railways do have legislation requiring one to 'shew a ticket on demand', but if they are taking you to court, is it for failure to show a ticket, or for fare evasion? As you are guilty of the first (though I'm surprised they won't allow the appeal), I'd probably pay but appeal again to someone more senior. If fare evasion, you clearly weren't trying to evade the fare having paid it, so I'd go to court. IANAL, etc.

The only witness I have to offering to pay is the ticket inspector as I was travelling alone.

@jackparlabane They’re saying I’ve got 21 days to pay or it’ll end up in magistrates court so they haven’t told me what the specific charge is yet.

What’s the best social media platform to take it to? I’m usually pretty quiet online and I’m slightly reticent to do so but if it gets results I might have to.

Transport For Wales are absolute cunts! Twitter and Facebook are the best ones to go public on. You had a ticket, you can't help your fucking phone crashing! I'm angry on your behalf. Maybe ask your MP to contact them on your behalf? Perhaps you could file a freedom of information request or something similar to see if you can get CCTV of the moment or a statement from the employee you spoke to? I'm no expert of course but maybe these are options.

Go to court. In my limited experience magistrates are reasonable people who look at evidence

I would just pay it. You were unable to produce a valid ticket for the journey. Just the same as if you purchased a ticket then lost it.

If you can purchase a ticket online and activate it online, how exactly are you supposed to show a ticket to an inspector?

What does the guidance say?

Hi OP, if you go to the UK rail forum there is a section for prosecutions and fines. Lots of people with a lot of knowledge and advice, take a look there. MNers are unlikely to have the specialist knowledge required.

www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prosecutions.152/

Also check if there is any evidence of the trainline app crashing for other people.

If you can purchase a ticket online and activate it online, how exactly are you supposed to show a ticket to an inspector?

You purchase online, and display the ticket through the companion app on your phone.

OP, did you not also get the ticket as a PDF attached to the confirmation email - you can also use that to travel (either by carrying a printout or showing the PDF on screen)

You purchase online, and display the ticket through the companion app on your phone

And if the App fails as it did for OP, then what? That’s the bit I am querying.

Be careful OP. Fare evasion gets you an actual criminal record for fraud.

And if the App fails as it did for OP, then what?

Sadly I think that is the OPs issue. AFAIK is that train companies require you to show them a valid ticket. They don't really care why you may not be able to.

Not your fault there was no 4G or WiFi. He should have given you 20 mins and come back!

Don't think it was internet related, the app itself crashed. They activated the ticket already. But they still should have given them some time and come back.

Ridiculous that there are no provisions for situations like this. You cannot help the app crashing. It's not really the same as losing your physical ticket as you can take steps to keep those safe. If OP has proof, and they do, that they bought a ticket before boarding then that should be the end of it.

Money hungry con artists.

Sadly I think that is the OPs issue. AFAIK is that train companies require you to show them a valid ticket. They don't really care why you may not be able to.

If train companies permit (and encourage) the purchase of online tickets which are to be displayed on your phone and something happens that is not your fault and you have proof of it, they shouldn't then be able to charge you a hefty sum for it. That is beyond unfair.

It's no help to you now but I use an app for train tickets and it crashes or logs me out all the time. So I now take a screen shot of the ticket so it's in my photo album.

Annoying about your fine but I would be tempted to pay it and move on.

Thank you for all the help and advice.

I bought and activated the ticket five minutes prior to boarding the train and didn’t get an email with a PDF until later which is frustrating.

Looking into it it doesn’t matter whether you lose/damage/run out of battery/ have an app malfunction on your phone it’s tough tits as far as they’re concerned.

It does feel very unfair though. I’ll only be buying paper tickets from now on.

I’m going to pay the fine as I cannot risk a conviction but I will try to appeal the ‘final written warning’ they give out after the fine is paid. I don’t feel I deserve a warning as I bought a bloody ticket in the bastarding first place .

Chalk it up to 'shit happens'