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Jo Brand and battery acid comment

174 replies

decisionsindecisions · 13/06/2019 12:20

I love Jo Brand. I love her stand up comedy and I think she's great when she presents HIGNFY.

I don't know what to make of this comment that she has apparently made regarding throwing battery acid instead of milkshake. Some people are saying this is comedy. Some people are disgusted by the comment. I sit somewhere in the middle of this. I think it's in poor taste and to be honest I am surprised that someone of her obvious intelligence would say something like this. But at the same time we live in a free society.

I just wondered what people on here think about it?

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jo-brand-sparks-fury-by-saying-politicians-should-have-battery-acid-thrown-at-them-instead-of-a4165941.html

OP posts:
NotAnActualSheep · 13/06/2019 22:50

boney I don't think that is fair. I used mob outrage as shorthand for "group of concerned individuals who have 'judged that she should lose her job' ..." as per the previous post. Maybe I misjudged that Wink. Re the PR reasons - yes, that seems to be how companies generally work... Calling it bringing into disrepute or whatever. Its totally unfair assuming the" sackee" isn't given a chance to defend/ justify their actions, but yy, it can feel/look like a mob rule. I've seen it happen to colleagues who have expressed "unpopular opinions".

lurker I'm definitely going all Voltaire on this "I may not agree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it" (and of course the right to be questioned on it, and criticised and whatever, including potentially sacked if merited, but not punished by the state). Though personally I would caveat that with things actually encouraging others to (or praising) action that would hurt others - not the case here. However, "saying" something is not the same as "throwing milkshake/acid on to make a point" and those people should rightly be punished, and, I understand, have been in the case of the milkshake attacks. I don't know anyone who supports that as a valid means of protest, and haven't seen anyone showing joy at it.

I'm definitely not saying throwing acid needs to be considered in context. Throwing acid is criminal regardless (as are antisemitic actions). I'm saying that a (tasteless) joke about throwing acid does need to be taken in the context of a (tasteless?) radio 4 comedy show. And also probably (though I've not seen the full video) someone training a dog to perform a (tasteless) trick should be taken in the context of a flippant Internet joke, as long as it is established that it wasn't intended to encourage anything sinister. Though what with the general antisemitic issues in society at the moment, and from what I remember about the phrase used to train the pug, I admit I'm significantly more uncomfortable with that - and not for any left/ right idealogical reason... Just from a "there are nutters on the Internet and they probably don't listen to radio 4 comedy shows" reason. Call me a snob if you will...

Justanotherlurker · 13/06/2019 23:08

NotAnActualSheep

You give a lot of caveats to justify why Brands humour is ok, i persume you gave the the nazi pug just as much caveats, either both should be brought against the courts or neither should.

This is childish tit for tat playing by the rules that the left have wanted to set in stone.

longwayoff · 14/06/2019 06:11

The BBC should have edited that out as they do with all their comedy shows. Plenty of nasty stuff is never broadcast. And it rarely comes from women. Farage, of course, has never said anything that could possibly be construed as hateful and inciting, how is it possible to be so unkind about someone who has made a point of being humanity's goodwill ambassador? May he receive everything he wishes on those he disagrees with. Peace and love to Nigel.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Idontwanttobeaman · 14/06/2019 06:23

If Farage or Trump had made that comment how many people would be defending them?

Precisely.

Just because it was Brand who said it doesn't make it any more ok.

BoneyBackJefferson · 14/06/2019 06:45

NotAnActualSheep
Apologies for any offense given.

I am just latching on to bits and putting thoughts out there.

For context of my PoV, I wouldn't ban Jo Brand et al for making 'jokes' whether in bad taste or not.

But I do think that there are some cases worthy of police involvement but most of all, I think that this "policing what others say" it what should happen, if people don't like it they should speak up.

It is things like this that promote discussion and put boundaries in place.

the more we talk the more we see who is who and what they truly are.

PreseaCombatir · 14/06/2019 07:09

If Farage or Trump had made that comment how many people would be defending them?
They don’t need to make any comments, because you’ve already got the comments like
Farage, of course, has never said anything that could possibly be construed as hateful and inciting

Typical left, when the right do something wrong, they talk about what the right do wrong, and when the left do something wrong... they talk about what the right do wrong!

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 14/06/2019 07:24

Taking the Free licence away from the over 75s. Allowing a disgusting *joke"
to go ahead under on their watch. The BBC are not exactly showing them selves in a good light this week are they

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 14/06/2019 07:25

I really can't get worked up about this, in the sense of stand up comedy its always been below the belt style for some comedians.

Idontwanttobeaman · 14/06/2019 07:33

Typical left, when the right do something wrong, they talk about what the right do wrong, and when the left do something wrong... they talk about what the right do wrong!

Exactly. It's a complete double standard. Held by those who profess to hold the morally superior high ground.

smallereveryday · 14/06/2019 07:46

This is what she ACTUALLY said. I listened to it live. In context. However as ever the baying brigade of those willing to find offence have not bothered to listen to all that was said.

Any investigation will centre around a charge of 'intent to incite violence'. INTENT being the important word here.

30 seconds reading will show everyone that context and FULL UNABRIDGED content , blows any idea of INTENT out of the water and leaves nothing but hot air for the professionally offended.

When asked about Brexit causing a divide in the country, Brand said: ‘I would say that but that is because certain unpleasant characters are being thrown to the fore. ‘And they are very very easy to hate. I am kind of thinking, why bother with a milkshake, when you could get some battery acid? That’s just me, sorry. I’m not gonna do it, it’s purely a fantasy, but I think milkshakes are pathetic, I honestly do. Sorry.’

PreseaCombatir · 14/06/2019 07:49

Thanks smaller
If only someone else had thought to write a transcript on here sooner, or better yet, if someone had posted a link so everyone could listen for themselves.

Lol

longwayoff · 14/06/2019 08:11

Typically Right, reverse the narrative. Farage "will pick up a rifle" if things. don't go his way. And he isn't joking.

howwudufeel · 14/06/2019 08:13

I think it would be outrageous if a right wing figure had said this. And I think it’s just as outrageous that Jo Brand said it. I really like Jo Brand too.

thornyhousewife · 14/06/2019 08:17

It was a punchline of a joke - I can't fathom the idea that speech should be regulated.

She didn't walk around commanding people to throw acid, she is a professional comedian who, whilst at work, set up and executed a joke about the volatile political situation. Acid was the punchline.

I like her even more for staying solid about free speech and the function of comedy and for not apologising.

For those spending energy worrying about acid attacks. Good. So you should. It's overwhelmingly women on the receiving end, now what are you going to do about it?

PreseaCombatir · 14/06/2019 08:21

Typically Right, reverse the narrative.
This is a thread about Jo Brand.
Surely bringing NF’s musings into it is ‘reversing the narrative’
Again, typical move of the left, accuse others of doing what you what you do cough privatising the NHS cough

longwayoff · 14/06/2019 08:46

Where's the outrage about Nige and his gun? Is one ok and the other not? One inciteful and the other not? Explain, if you would be so kind.

PreseaCombatir · 14/06/2019 08:56

Where's the outrage about Nige and his gun? Is one ok and the other not? One inciteful and the other not? Explain, if you would be so kind
It’s everywhere. It’s been mentioned many many times on this thread alone.
Now you’re either being wilfully ignorant, obtuse, goady, or you lack comprehension skills

longwayoff · 14/06/2019 09:08

Funny or not Presea, only one of those utterances was a joke to be taken in context.

PreseaCombatir · 14/06/2019 09:23

I don’t care about what jokes who makes.
I really couldn’t care less, but the hypocrisy stinks to high heaven.
The left set the precedent, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

decisionsindecisions · 14/06/2019 09:34

I have been following this with interest. As I said I have no axe to grind with Jo Brand, I like her stand up comedy and I think that she is obviously an intelligent lady. And this is way I cannot fathom why she would say something like this, even if it was in the context of a "joke".

Not all people view humour in the same way. For example I will never understand why others find Monty Python funny. I just don't get it. I used to find Ben Elton funny when I was an older teenager but I do understand that some people didn't and don't like his humour. Is it so difficult to understand that many people will hear what Jo Brand has said and not realise that she said this in jest?

She is not a stupid woman which makes it worse. She knows the current political climate, she must have knowledge of death threats made against politicians recently and still she makes this comment.

We can debate the nuances of satire all we like but some people in our society take things literally, whether we like it or not.

OP posts:
NotAnActualSheep · 14/06/2019 09:37

lurker I've reminded myself a bit about nazi pug guy ... He was accused and fined a medium amount for gross offense for his video. The judge, who had heard the evidence, said it was:

...a deeply unpleasant offence in which disgraceful and utterly offensive material was very widely distributed by the appellant... This was to the considerable distress of the community in question and – just as disturbingly – to the apparent approval of a large number of persons who appear to share the appellant’s racist views.

The counter argument is of course that no one has the right not to be offended. NPG also said they had ignored the fact that it was a joke. I do agree with the counter arguments, and had it been made clear in the video that it was a joke, and that he wasn't actually celebrating nazi views (as JB did, by implication of it being a comedy show, and actual words) the judgement may have been more lenient. However, I think the latter part of the judge's statement is key, about how others viewed it. Also, this tipped so far over the "offense" line that it would be hard to argue it was made and distributed in good faith as a joke. And my previous comments on antisemitic actions stand (and whether you say he was an out and out hammer and sickle socialist, or a common or garden ukip nazi (this is a joke... just to cover myself Wink, I do not think every member of ukip is a nazi...) doesn't matter. We have seen that antisemitism isn't solely an issue on the right). People may have no right not to be offended, but they do have a right not to feel unsafe in their community, or be discriminated against through pervasive views that are normalised or whatever.

Re "if Farage or Trump had said it..." yes, I agree, that would be a totally different kettle of fish, because they are politicians. I know we have a low opinion of politicians, but I think everyone agrees that it is not on for them to suggest one illegal action is a bit more pathetic than another illegal action. Rightly or wrongly comedians have more leeway. And even then I think I wouldn't defend JB if she had made her comment on CBeebies, as a pp has said (or out of context at a fundraiser for acid attack victims, for example). But she didn't and wouldn't 'cos she knew exactly what she was doing and who her audience were.

boney thanks Smile. And I have to say I do agree. It is totally within people's rights to say they find something offensive, as people are doing on this thread. Reasonable people, especially comedians who know they do the line-skirting thing - should listen, and will likely temper that act for certain audiences. I maintain she has a right to free speech in comedy, but given her audience is now much wider than originally anticipated, she is probably a bit upset that people have been genuinely offended. I don't think she is a callous monster who sets out to offend people who don't go to a comedy show expecting that things will be said outside of normal polite society conversation. However, I don't think people's rights extend to "I'm offended, send her to prison" or "fine her" or "sack her"... Of course they can say that is their preferred remedy (and others can agree or disagree) but ultimately that is a decision for the courts or the employer, and I think it is distasteful for so much pressure/threats to be made to them to act out the will of a comparatively small section of society.

thornyhousewife I like her even more for staying solid about free speech and the function of comedy and for not apologising
Yy, totally agree!

NotAnActualSheep · 14/06/2019 09:40

I also have to say it's a very interesting conversation and has made me think a lot. Thanks all, and OP for starting the thread! Flowers

StayAChild · 14/06/2019 10:02

I really like Jo Brand's style of humour and delivery. Love her contribution on panel shows etc, but in this case she stepped over a line IMO. The political climate being what it is right now should make it obvious to clever people like JB that there are some things that aren't acceptable. She's an entertainer not a politician and I, for one, don't want to hear her say such controversial things and get paid for it.

Singlenotsingle · 14/06/2019 21:52

She's so unpleasant. Apparently she's apologised now, but only in that half hearted way that isn't really sincere. Danny Baker got sacked for the monkey joke. This is worse.

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