Do you worry about your kids' 'popularity'?

[Echobelly]

DH always seems to worry a lot about our kids' popularity, and I'm much more sanguine about it.

A few years ago when loads of kids didn't come to DD's party he got in a big flap that we hadn't organised enough playdates, she wasn't well liked enough for people to bother etc (though it turned out it was just a bad date for people, other parties have been fine).

He always gets upset when he sees them with peers and they spend time on their own and only have one or two friends they interact with. Both kids have 3 or 4 good friends and other less close ones, and I honestly think that is fine. I would worry if they had no one or relied solely on one child, but they don't. I don't think even the 'popular' kids have more real friends than that, they just have more hangers on in a sense.

DH seems to feel very self-conscious about having not been a popular kid; I wasn't either, but I don't much care. I did have friends and they were good ones I never had rows with.

Our kids are nice, and aren't bullies or seriously bullied. I don't really see what we could do to make things otherwise. I'm sure his very socially pushy mum must have organised lots of playdates, and that didn't help him. I'm not about to tell DD to grow her hair and be into more of the same things as her peers so she's more 'popular'. That only makes one 'tolerated' and allowed to tag along as far as I can tell. Much better to give them confidence in being themselves and that they have the right friends.

I guess the issue is dealing with (or at least acknowledging) hangovers from your own childhood.

I had very few friends, particularly at secondary. I have a toddler DD and am aware that at least some of the "mum friends" stuff I do is because I want her to be comfortable with other kids and able to engage (I wasn't).

(And with no small amount of irony I now have lots of "mum friends" and am constantly organising stuff...)

Not a lot. Certainly not about DS2. He's the life and soul and has many friends in his own school year and in others too. He's confident and popular and loves life which he finds a breeze (he's 9) He is a people person, and popularity accompanies that.

DS1 we worry a bit - he and DS2 are like chalk and cheese. He doesn't really have friends, nor does he seem to want to, although I think he probably chats to people at school. He hasn't found a close friend yet at school though (he's Y7) He didn't go to the same secondary as the rest of his primary school - we figured since he didn't have any close friends that this aspect wouldn't be an issue, but I think he has found the lack of familiar faces a challenge.
He is insular and stroppy (with us anyway) and socially struggles. A loner, basically. Luckily for him (and I know this is not v. mumsnetty or pc - being about appearance, but its true) he is very big for his age (as in tall and well built) and has an appealing face (I'd say pretty but not sure that's the best description for a hefty 12 year old), so he's not an obvious target for bullies.

I worry that he will never find 'his people' or whether they even exist. I don't feel that he needs to be at all popular, and he won't ever be, but as long as he is not disliked or bullied and is not unhappy with the situation, then we are not too worried. ( I say all those things in a negative sense, because he rarely seems actively 'happy'. Which is a sad thing for a parent to say, but this is how he has always been.

It's important to me to feel that my boys are popular, but I wouldn't necessarily want them to be in the super popular groups at school.

DS1 is mixed race and attends a school in a very affluent nearby city, with predominantly white children. I have always worried about him standing out and not fitting in, so yes I would be praying he was popular. Fortunately he is particularly with the girls.

DS2 has many medical issues that have left him with a disability and learning difficulties. I worry about him a lot, so would worry if he wasn't popular. He isn't quite the social butterfly that DS1 is, but has a lovely supportive group of friends and that's good enough for me.

I guess the issue is dealing with (or at least acknowledging) hangovers from your own childhood.

Exactly. And the main realisation I had as an adult is that, unless you are a person, who has, for whatever reason, a fairly restricted adult life and will remain within the same social and geographical ambit, school social dynamics are a complete irrelevance. They're the clearing your throat before your life really gets started.

Secondary will be a challenge for DD - she's unconventional, which is not a trait beloved of 11yos, and not going with lots of friends. On the other hand, she is socially confident (I hope security secondary doesn't knock this out of her ) and is going to a small, quite creative school where I feel fairly confident she can find 'her' crowd sooner than I found mine!

My 2 DC’s are complete opposite. DS is 13 and has a huge group of friends. Mix of boys and girls at school. He does lots of team sports so has different friend groups outside of school. He is clever, sporty and funny. Everyone seems to be drawn to him and as a family we socialise with some of the families from his sports clubs. He is always out with his friends, both just playing and organised days out/sleepovers etc and we obviously reciprocate.

DD, 15 has never quite fitted in, much like me at school. She has 1 friend from an out of school club and 1 at school who has just moved into the area. Until recently she sat in the library by herself every break time. I often ask if she wants to invite anyone around, go out anywhere etc but she rarely does. It breaks my heart when I see end of term days out being planned on social media and she’s not invited.

So, yes, I do worry. I think most children without a group of friends are generally not as happy. Whilst I wouldn’t necessarily want DD to be popular, I would like her to have a bigger group of friends.

”...wears skirts that look like belts.”

I remember making this remark when I was about thirteen, too. I wish someone had pointed out to me that policing other girls’/women’s outfits is really horrible.

Re: the OP, my eldest is only 7 so this hasn’t been a major issue so far, but it has never crossed my mind and no, I don’t care whether mine are popular or not, as long as they each have a few nice friends at school and outside of school.

It can be really hard not to project the more painful bits of one’s own childhood onto one’s children though.

I’m not overly concerned about them being “popular” but am very glad they both have a good group of friends. DS2 is in a big class compared to DS1 and isn’t invited to all the parties, but is fine about it as the ones he’s not invited to are not his friends. I worry more about social skills than popularity to be honest. It’s all very well being popular in a class of 9, but if you’re then like a fish out of water going to new clubs/ secondary school then that’s no use! As for growing hair/faking interests- I wouldn’t!! Children will always find something to pick on- the most popular boy in DS1’s year went away with a sports club and was bullied over his choice of wash bag! Having the confidence and resilience to brush such comments off is a far more effective tool than having to change your trainers to whatever X says is cool now!

It can be really hard not to project the more painful bits of one’s own childhood onto one’s children though.

Agreed, @NellWilsonsWhiteHair, but I think it's one of the most important things in parenting a child, to recognise that they're not some version of you, and to not pass on your hang-ups or sensitivities. It's certainly something I'm conscious of trying to do.

(Also, a derail, but would Elinor M Brent-Dyer have considered dyeing your hair awfully 'fast'? I feel for Nell, who is left with sudden, prematurely-white top hair with broad streaks of the original red underneath, and just has to put up with it? Obviously, she has more to think about when she's running away from the Nazis dressed as the world's most unlikely Austrian peasant, but still...)

I think your DH needs to work on his issues. Most people are not "popular" as such, but have a secure group of friends to have fun with, and do just fine. I'm wondering whether he may not have had those secure friendships, and felt lonely or socially isolated, and now equates those things with not being popular?

Anyway, he needs to stop projecting. It sounds like your DC have plenty of friends, and the last thing a child needs is a parent openly fretting that they aren't cool enough.

I agree with you op.
My ds (10) gets on with people in his class but doesn’t have a “partner in crime” since the last one left in year 3.
He doesn’t like football and refuses to join in the lunchtime game, and there’s not much I can do about that.
He seems fairly relaxed about it though. He’ll start a new school in September where they do cricket and swimming which he does like. Hopefully there will a new bf there.

Tell your DH he has to chill out, or he will force his issues onto your dc like his mum did to him.

Popularity or 'cool' is just something you have naturally or you don't. Either is fine, but there is nothing uncooler than trying to be cool. It's obvious to everyone and just has the opposite effect.

Your kids sound fine, and as long as they are happy your DH shouldn't be worrying.

I get what you're saying NellWilson, but dressing purely for the benefit of boys and men, and acting 'dumb' so as to appear non-threatening when you're 13 isn't really on either, is it? Nobody really enjoys walking around with their pants on show! Personally I wish someone had told me to have a bit more self respect at that age.

I wouldn't say DS1 is popular, but he is liked and respected and that goes a long way. It's important to feel comfortable being yourself. He has a small, secure cluster of good friends and is liked beyond that.

DS2 is more gregarious and is getting to the stage of true friendships developing and becoming more discerning.

I wasn't "popular" but I have always had good friends, and I've been comfortable enough to do my own thing independently without needing a support crew for everything which some sociable people seem to need.

I don't really worry about it as such but I do feel for my kids. My daughter's in year 3. In the first couple of years at school she seemed to be friends with everyone and was constantly going to play dates etc. This year her popularity seems to have dropped dramatically. Suddenly she just has a couple of friends who are not very popular themselves. I'm not stressed and at least she has friends but I do feel sad for her that the children she was so close to for years seem to have dropped her. My son is extremely shy and struggles with making friends. It breaks my heart when he always talks about his "best friend" who he's never even spoken to!

I’d like mine to be popular because of being self assured and confident. I’ve 4 kids and can see 4 very different personalities. They are still very young but my eldest is kind and fair, a real thinker who doesn’t crave other people so hasn’t seemed popular in school so far. Though all his teachers have said he is kind and treats everyone the same so kids having a bad time tend to head over in his direction for company. A few other mums have specifically pulled me aside to say their child has said he’s the nicest kid in class. So I’m proud of that. #2 is all round alpha perfect at everything. Academics, friendships, sports. She cleans up. Her teacher told me today she’s extremely popular with boys and girls in the class. I’d say she’ll just be that type though has a sensitive streak and can be easily hurt which is her weakness. #3 is thick skinned, funny and extroverted. I’m interested to see how she goes when she starts school. If she’s as self assured as I think she is she will thrive. And the baby is an absolute friendly dote. Loves people and has great humour and is hugely laid back. He’s very likeable as a person even though just a baby.

But I have to say that I think the greatest thing that will lead to a kids popularity is a very shallow thing and it’s privilege. A mixture of money and the confidence that goes with being privileged. Exposure to sports and travel, nice clothes and always being able to do ‘cool’ things like ski trips and concerts. Meeting successful people and being exposed to professionals is also a great privilege. The way kids learn to talk and interact, the expectations they have when they are privileged. This is what often is the tipping point for popularity beyond a kids personality. There are always rare outliers but privilege goes a long way in bridging the gap from unpopular to popular in general.

Being popular at school means doing all the stuff you really would prefer your kids didn't do...being liked is much safer!

Not necessarily happyspud. We are well off and if anything it has hindered dd. Of the few friends she does have most have a lot less money than we do and she often gets bitched about for bragging - she doesn't she just talks about her life like friends do.

I think the greatest thing that will lead to a kids popularity is a very shallow thing and it’s privilege.

I agree with Titsywoo that this is not necessarily the case. In my secondary school affluent parents were a social hazard, and I remember downplaying our modest level of privilege. I expect that's different in a private school - it's all down to situation and trends.

Happyspud, we’re not well off, but comfortable. We take both DC’s to sporting events, nice holidays, they both do sports and wear decent, branded clothing etc, but they are both very different in terms of popularity.

DD is very confident talking to adults and knows her own mind but isn’t popular. DS is quite shy around his sports coaches and not at all confident talking to adults but is very popular??

I do agree, though, that having a well balanced life with opportunities does generally help with confidence.

I do. I remember from my own childhood how heartbreaking it is to be lonely, and how much happier I was when I had friends. I don't think my mum helped, tbh, she was quite unconventional and e.g. we never had the fashionable toys or had watched the fashionable TV shows. And I didn't quite know how to articulate that it would have been helpful to have watched Neighbours and know what was in the charts.
I know I am quite similar to my mum in lots of ways, so I worry that that will affect DS. He is so desperate to be liked and have friends, and I think he will be unhappy if he doesn't. He's an August-born and although he does have friends at nursery, he's starting school in September, and I do worry ...
I don't want him to necessarily be popular. I just don't want him to be lonely. I want him to have good friendships and feel confident in his social interactions.

I'm not even a parent yet and this is one of the issues that worries me most; I have the potential to be just like your DH.

I was so badly bullied at school by EVERYBODY that I fear for that in children. Luckily I had lots of friends in clubs outside school and now I understand why my parents were so happy for me to get involved in it all.

DH was and still is the most popular person I know. He is just so 'likeable' that despite not being a cool kid at school, he was easily the most popular in his year. Hopefully our DCs experience will lie somewhere in the middle.

I don't worry about this. I hate the thought of them being lonely so I check that they've had someone to play with each day, but popularity isn't a concern for me.

Ah, just found this book I was trying to remember the name of! I saw it once in a shop and wanted to show it to my husband... it's about the difference between social status and likeability www.amazon.co.uk/Popularity-Illusion-status-toxic-likeability/dp/1785040553/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&keywords=popularity+myth&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1560371836&sr=1-4