16 months old...advice on discipline? Stricter parenting?

[IABUQueen]

I have a 16 mo old boy, who is absolutely lovely. Likes sharing and smiling all the time. Enjoys other people’s companies and brings joy to everyone around. He trusts me and looks for my approval in whatever he does (as they do at that age).

I have so far been baby led in everything, breastfeeding, routine, feeding and even parenting. I have been exploring his character and I’ve been enjoying parenting him so far.

However, the lack of structure and routine has been draining. And my lack of ability to say “No” while he listens means I carry him a lot and I just distract him when he has tantrums and comfort him.

I am however pregnant and am scared about how this will work with another baby in the picture. I am also being warned that when he hits the terrible 2s he will unleash a difficult attitude and that I am not doing him a favor by teaching him from now that as a parent it should be my way or nothing else..

I’ve been uncomfortable with this advice until I saw a friend of mine parenting her child who is much younger. And she was extremely strict with her about house rules and behaviour around adults. And her child seems to understand and be quite desciplined.

But I can’t get myself to be this strict as a parent as I’ve always felt this is the correct approach when a child has the comprehensive ability to understand consequences.. and that for now it’s about teaching them through play. But I have nothing to go by.

I am not completely passive.. I have a reasonable ability to communicate with my son and hear his needs out. But I’m worried this is temporary as this is the age where they actually want approval and soon it will be over. I don’t want to realise things too late.

So I want to know, do you think baby led parenting will put impossible pressures on me later on as a parent and make it more likely for me to lose control? Do you feel I should enforce house rules regardless and expect a child to understand that sometimes parental authority in the house is to be followed and not questioned ?

Am I spoiling my child and about to regret it?

There is a difference between discipline and boundaries though. You can say no without punishing your child.

I do say no but he never takes it seriously and I don’t follow through with it.

I’m realizing I need to change my mindset a little as I might be spoiling him. He is naturally a pleasant child and I hope it’s not too late for me to teach him boundaries.

I struggle with asserting boundaries as a person in general.

On the whole, baby led. But with some routine which works with your family, otherwise parents will run themselves into the ground as each baby leads in a different way, wants feeding or goes to bed at a different time. My DP and I also wanted a little bit of time in the evening for just us once the DC had gone to bed.
So for our family some flexible structure worked well, such as high chair/sit at table meal times, regular bath/cuddles/story bedtime. Rest of the time was baby/child led.

Boundaries, routine, consistent parenting - it's not discipline, it's giving a certain amount of structure, and teaching your child skills they will need as they grow.

Meals for example - sit at a table/high chair. Eat nicely. Ask to leave the table/get down when you're finished. If you don't teach the basis now, your child will find school, play dates, parties, restaurants, completely baffling later.

My DC's are older, but I think I've only ever told them off a couple of times. What I aimed for was consistent expectations.

My DC's are older, but I think I've only ever told them off a couple of times. What I aimed for was consistent expectations.

I like the idea of that.

To be fair I’m already switching from being baby led to structured routines as I’m pregnant and realize it’s not sustainable. I just assumed it’s for my own benefit and that children naturally comply with a routine once you guide them into one.

My approach has been to “gently” guide into my way.

But the comprehension of boundaries is very much lacking in my parenting as I had assumed that once they start using sentences then I can introduce boundaries.

I was certainly hoping to introduce the, calming down in your own room method when 2. Helping them manage emotions through tantrums as opposed to suppressing them so they don’t upset me.

I think I’m struggling to know where the balance is. I’ve definitely landed myself in a lot of stress before due to my nurturing approach which is lacking boundaries. So I’m hoping to improve on that- before my son struggles.

Thanks everyone.

Do you just say “no” or do you explain what you’d like him to do instead?
E.g. if throwing food on the floor I wouldn’t just say “No stop throwing food”, I’d say “Food doesn’t go on the floor, if you don’t want it put it on the table/plate/whatever “.
I think if they hear “no” all the time it loses it’s power.

No is just a sound - if there's no meaning attached you might as well be saying huss or fibble. Your son listens but ignores because he has no idea what it means. I actually tend to use an 'ah-ah' sound to gain attention/show disapproval and save 'no' for important things. 'No' is very firm and I stop them doing whatever it is. If you let them ignore 'no' then it's meaningless.

I don't think you are lacking rules as such as having no boundaries or expectations. Discipline isn't about punishing, it's teaching your child to be in the world.

With your food example - I would have an expectation and habit that meals are eaten at the table, food is eaten and not wasted or thrown on the floor. Believe me, the children who start nursery/school at 3 or 4 who haven't been taught that meals are eaten with cutlery, seated at a table etc struggle!

So my babies from 4 months sit at the table for meals, they eat with us, by 12 months they're feeding themselves.
At 16 months if they started throwing food about I would give a sharp 'ah-ah!' and they'd know that is not acceptable.
If they mess around they get down, no food.

So now I have 3 & 5 year olds who wash their hands and come to the table when asked, sit nicely, chat, eat with cutlery, wait for everyone to finish before they get down. Meal times aren't stressful.
I can't imagine chasing them around with food and then suddenly now introducing meal time behaviour as a new 'rule'.

"I struggle with asserting boundaries as a person in general."

That could be the root of the issue. If you work on assertiveness and boundaries in general it could help in other areas of your life like your job (teaching?) and personal life.

I can't imagine chasing them around with food and then suddenly now introducing meal time behaviour as a new 'rule'.

How can I transition now? Is it too late ?

I’m a bit panicking as so far I’ve been smugly assuming that I’m doing a wonderful job because son seems to trust me. I’ve now realized I’ve been spoiling him a little.

Will go library tomorrow and Get books to read. Im Going to look into parenting courses. I had no idea I was doing it wrong because all the signs were showing me a very happy loving baby :S.

Both me and DH had been brought up in authoratarian homes which only made us want to be the opposite. So a lot of guilt plays into this..

You're catastrophising! Of course you're not doing it wrong, if he's happy then you're doing it right. And 16 months isn't too late, I hope you realise that's a bit ridiculous

How can I transition now? Is it too late ?
Tomorrow, sit down together at the table for breakfast. Chat to him, let him feed himself.
If he throws food, say 'food on the table' (I'd only give a little bit at a time eg a couple of blueberries, a 1/4 toast!)
If he fusses, get him down and continue eating your breakfast - he will come back if he wants to eat.

Do the same for lunch. Do the same every day.

You need to set your expectation, and stick to it. Don't ever chase him round with food. Food is eaten at the table. Be firm, and clear, and consistent.

If I can clarify (I was writing on my phone while settling the baby, so not the easiest to re-read what I was saying).

I don't think that "lack of strictness" in the young years causes delinquency in the older years. I just think this is utter rubbish TBH although it is a view many people have. I would say that the grain of truth in it is habit, and DC get into the expectation that you mean what you say etc. You build good habits if you're consistent and clear on the rules from the start. I don't think it's about my way or the highway or "knowing who is boss". I don't parent like that and I wouldn't even if I was being my ideal version of a parent (being honest, nobody parents perfectly according to their ideals, we are all human and have bad days/moments/make mistakes, feel tired, get lazy, get forgetful, etc.)

You mentioned that you have some issues saying no and that you "couldn't" parent like your friend does, which sounds like you are very conflict avoidant. Being honest in hindsight this is 100% my biggest issue. I would urge you actually to stay away from, or at least be extremely careful with taking any advice from "gentle parenting" type guides and websites. You don't need any guidance in how to be more gentle - it sounds like you're lovely and gentle already. You need a bit of guidance in how to not find being tough so scary and threatening, because sometimes you need to be tough.

I remember my DH (who came along when my DS1 was 2) being really shocked at my struggles with DS1 when he was 3 or so and asking me "Did you have really harsh discipline when you were a kid, or none at all? Because it's got to be one of them." He couldn't believe how scared I was of discipline, and in hindsight he was absolutely right.

The problem that happens if you're reluctant to initiate conflict is that eventually you will come up against a situation where you need them to either do or stop doing something, and you will become so frustrated because you just can't make them that you will end up snapping and shouting, or "helping" them a bit too roughly, or pulling them or even worse screaming or hitting. That's a failure of the system because it's much much worse than what you think will be terrible - telling them off or imposing some kind of punishment. Recognising this is key because it means you can cut through a lot of the gentle parenting guilt about punishments or ultimatums, and recognise that while they aren't the best way to change behaviour, they are actually an option which can be used sometimes, and quite often they are bloody useful as a shortcut.

If you want to know how you can set boundaries, try to notice yourself dealing with safety critical issues. Most people do manage to set boundaries here because it matters - show yourself some respect and decide that YOU matter too. IME what's really behind a lot of this is a kind of idea that the child is "more important" than your convenience, which absolutely isn't true, it's not just your convenience, is it? It's your mental health as well. And that is important.

TBH I find no mostly pointless, especially at this age. We have a 9mo DS2 and DH keeps chasing him around saying "No" or "ah-ah" in increasingly threatening tones at the moment which is driving me absolutely bonkers. (I know he would not actually punish him at this age though he may take an item away, which is reasonable). Though I have noticed that DS2 is FAR more receptive to an interrupting sound than DS1 ever was. I don't mind using it as an interruptor as it gives me a chance to come over and stop him doing whatever it is he's not supposed to be. But at this age it's all about prevention and redirection. I find it so much more effective if you can combine the no with an action, so covering over the item you don't want them to touch or covering their mouth if they are trying to put something in their mouth.

Learning about their development and understanding really helps.

Bertie.. wow that so struck a chord. I really resonated with your advice thanks so much for that.

Thanks everyone for all the perspective. I was honestly drowning as I was feeling I’m no longer in control of my time. Couldn’t even get a small task done as he wanted my attention and to be carried 24/7.

I today managed to keep him in the chair for all his meals. So much easier as chasing him around meant j was feeding him all day as he takes 3 min break between each bite..

I also decided when he asks me to pick him up I won’t. It’s really affecting me as I’m pregnant. I thought my soul will be destroyed to see him cry.

He took it very personally that I didn’t want to carry him. And I went into brain shut down as I felt so terrible. So husband stepped in and hugged him and comforted him and he quickly was happy and playing.

So I decided whenever he kicks a fuss if I don’t follow his expectation then I will just calm down his tantrum while following through on what I want to do.

I still have a lot to learn about the practicality if things. I feel like because I’m too scared to traumatize him I’d rather err on the side of passivity than I’m over disciplining. But truth is I probably need to be much more in the middle.

It was a lot simpler than I thought and I ended up with freer hands and my husband was happy with the bit of attention he got.

I have a long way to go but i started with the first step and I’m already looking back on yesterday with horror at how scared of conflict I am and how it was resulting in me being bossed around.

Thanks everyone

It's really great that you're able to see these patterns so early. I didn't really start to try and change things until DS1 was 3 or 4 and it just made it really hard.

When you're thinking about what boundaries are needed think in terms of practicality. So for example food it makes so much more work for you to follow him around, as you've noticed. And keeping at the table should help clean up as well. You don't have to be harsh but just having your line and bein firm on it works. For not picking him up you can offer an alternative like we can have a cuddle sitting on the sofa. But as you have noticed, usually their reaction to it is a little protest/expression of disappointment and then they move on and are really fine. It's not the end of the world.

I am finding this much easier with DS2 because I know he won't be destroyed if I say no to something. Children are really very resilient as long as you aren't abusive or neglectful.

So I have ordered the book “how to talk so kids listen..” and can’t wait for it to arrive.

I’ve signed up for Ahaparenting and will be starting to go through their articles from today while breastfeeding.

Bertie you are very right. As long as I’m not being neglectful or abusive there is nothing traumatising for them about getting upset and being comforted till they manage their emotions. It must’ve been such a subconscious fear for me but now that I’m talking about it out loud it’s all looking soo simple. You have truly helped me.

Thanks for the tip on boundaries. I am going to have a think about what boundaries I need to set as it’s definately not my nature but your tip on practicality makes sense. Is there any resources that helped you through the process? It’s such a new road to me not just as a parent but as a person. And what I noticed is my motivation to be a good parent to my child has usually been the best way at reshaping who I am as a person so I’m sure I will be able to learn to set boundaries in life because of him.

I feel like hugging you all this thread might’ve saved my sanity.

FYI I have "how to talk so little kids listen" (they're two different books)

Glad you've found this thread helpful

16 month olds do not understand the word ‘no’ and they have no understanding of rules of discipline- they were a baby until four months ago ffs! They just want to play and have fun.

Continue doing what you are doing, your DS sounds lovely.

FYI I have "how to talk so little kids listen" (they're two different books)

Oh! Thanks for the tip! I ordered the rest of the set now. I’m probably going to need all of them.

Pinkmouse you are right but I really needed to get rid of my own guilt in setting some boundaries and setting expectations and I feel with time they will understand that. My original post probably phrased the whole thing wrong as I wasn’t understanding the concept.

What about when your DC does something dangerous? That's the only time I really did stern/louder voices when DS was that little eg. 'No, Hot!'

Oh, and when he bit while breastfeeding!

While you're ordering books, grab a copy of The Gentle Discipline Book by Sarah ockwell-smith. It's excellent.

I'm glad you're taking this seriously. Don't worry, because your child is basically still a baby so you have time on your side, but you do need to give a child boundaries. My wonderful friend is a bit like how you describe yourself and tbh I can't visit her any more, as her older child is utterly undisciplined and awful to be around.

One thing that helped me at the toddler stage was the understanding that they don’t just need boundaries in order to stay safe and become civilised social beings, they need boundaries in order to be happy.

Young children know at some level that they are not yet competent to function alone in the world, and they derive their sense of safety and security from the knowledge that there is one or more competent adults in charge. And if you are not in charge, they know that and do not feel safe. A bit like being a backseat passenger in a car on a motorway and it slowly dawning on you that the driver hasn’t passed their test.

This is why, despite a bit of whinging, their world doesn’t actually end when you take charge - it is superficially disappointing for them to be told “no” or have their hands pulled away from the electric socket or have the screen switched off, but at a profound level it is reassuring that their parent is up to the job of parenting them. That is the foundation of their sense of safety and security and, in turn, their lasting happiness.

@LarkDescending great post