Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

toxic parent is beloved grandparent - help me please

43 replies

plumjam2019 · 10/06/2019 15:15

I’m upstairs hiding in my bedroom in my own fucking house to avoid dealing with another of my mother’s several-hours-long hissy fits about me, my siblings and my dad. Mother is downstairs playing happily with my toddler DD, her only grandchild. She turned up with a separate suitcase full of sweets, clothes, and toys on her most recent visit and is very physically affectionate with DD, cooks her favourite food, plays her favourite games all the time, so is very much loved by DD. However doesn’t do (although nor do I expect) any parental drudgery such as nappies, bath + bed or the dreaded nursery drop off. The grandma equivalent of the Disney Dad.

My mother was never physically or emotionally affectionate with us - in fact had serious anger management issues and often smacked us - and remains very critical and manipulative about us four kids in adulthood. Martyred herself for us, apparently, and is simultaneously proud and dismissive (yes, simultaneously) of our achievements, which are clearly down to her superior parenting. Whereas we are successful in spite of her, not because of her, applying ourselves at school and at work because they were such peaceful and predictable environments. Mercifully my siblings are all in agreement about our childhood and her behaviour then and now, which makes it easier to bear.

My dad was a workaholic, an alcoholic, and very controlling financially during their marriage. They divorced on very bad terms 20 odd years ago, but are now fairly amicable (except when my mother is slagging him off behind his back). She received a huge financial settlement (my father was a lot richer than he ever let on). He has been sober for years and is back in our family fold (the main reason for my mother’s continued bitterness). We are three siblings plus a half sibling from my dad’s previous marriage, and in adulthood have chosen to keep our distance from our parents but we are not quite estranged from them. They came - together- to our weddings, are devoted to DD and anxiously excited about my sister’s pregnancy. Since DD was born they have come to visit her - both separately and together - 3-4 times a year for a week or two each time. (Both live some distance away). Since DD’s birth we have seen them more often than in the previous 20 years put together.

My daughter adores them both and longs to see them but I literally can’t manage more than a few hours in my mother’s company. Neither can DH nor the sibling who lives closest to us, but at least they can escape to work or to their home; as a SAHM I’m stuck hosting my mother for a fortnight at a time.

Dad is easier as he isn’t a talker and is contrite about the past rather than bitter. We keep the chat light and he fits in with us and our plans. My mother OTOH expects us to remake our family home dynamics of 20 years ago, with her the matriarch at the centre of an adoring family (which we never were).

One of the ways my mother isolated us - of course we didn’t realise this is what she was doing at the time - was estrange us from our grandparents and extended family, particularly in the aftermath of the divorce.

I’ve just had a flash of clarity and realised this is the exact road I must not go down with DD, but just don’t know how I can retain my sanity whilst inviting such a toxic relationship back into my life.

Does anyone have any tips? I can’t let DD go home with my mother as I couldn’t guarantee she would be safe. My mother still believes in corporal punishment and still has a terrifying temper.

OP posts:
endlesslyrepeating · 10/06/2019 18:01

It is hard though - your dad has had enough therapy and hit rock bottom but your mum hasn’t and is now the bigger problem. I wonder if it’s worth you and your siblings trying to talk to your mum collectively about some of the things you think she might need counselling for?

I can see the argument for no contact but I’d want to be really sure there was no prospect of improvement or change before I deprived my child of an interested grandparent.

Your siblings aren’t no contact?

Burpsandrustles · 10/06/2019 18:20

Op I don't know. It's just hideous when people so constantly negative and nasty.

Comments like mummy kill joy are awful.

It gets v messy when the children are older as well.

I would personally try and causally have chat one Day... first about past... money... secondly about putting you down in front of your daughter.

Silly question but do you have a drink with your mum? Watch films together relax.... have times when you can more easily raise award issue's.

Regardless... I would call out every time she's negative ... mum! Please!! Don't say that...

And if she continues you can say.. can't have you round your too ...

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 10/06/2019 18:35

As the equivalent of your dd in this scenario I would say to stop bothering.

Once your dd stops being little and cute and becomes a moody teenager then she won’t like her so much anyway. (Although my grandmother liked me very much when I got into Cambridge!)

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Cherrysoup · 10/06/2019 19:32

I’m not sure why you want your mother to have a relationship with your dd. I guarantee once she’s out of the cute 2 year old stage and has a will of her own, your mother’s not so nice character traits will re-surface. I’m thinking of one of my parents’ friends who basically is hated by his adult children who have all had therapy and serious issues due to his shit behaviour. He’s fabulous with very small kids, but the minute they tell him no and develop their own character, oh boy, do things change!

I personally can’t cope with my dm for more than 2 nights: I’d be reducing her visits or eliminating them. Your dd will not care within 6 months, meanwhile you’re putting yourself through torture.

Namechangedzzz · 10/06/2019 19:55

plumjam2019

dear op. We are NC with my toxic mil. It was a big decision. I posted on here a lot under a different name. My eldest DC was 3. This was over two years ago now of bliss and amazing how much stress it caused us but we didn't appreciate just how much until it was gone. What I wanted to tell you my DC now has no recollection of mil!!! Their lives are full of other strong positive relationships which at first were used a little as a distraction but are now strong foundations. Please do not worry about gm being adored, she will be forgotten if you do go NC or if you stand up to her about what she is doing it will be ok with your and your dd

One piece of advice that I was given on here which has stuck with me was something like if they were a toxic parent they cannot be a good grandparent. This was true in our position. Poison was dripped in my DC ears about us and we were undermined all the time until we went nc. fortunately no physical punishment but we never let them be on their own with her.

Please trust your instincts. And also respect your DH feelings, he is obviously uncomfortable too. Do not feel obligated to have her to stay, you do not owe her anything. She chose to have you, she chose to stay in the marriage for that length of time, your F did not make her like that - not everyone in her position is violent and volatile.

Please read the book toxic parents and read up on fear obligation and guilt (FOG)

Flowers
Lairydea · 10/06/2019 20:09

I could have written this about my mother. I'm NC now and life is so much easier - though I have lots of things to mentally unpack and deal with from childhood. It took several goes before I could fully commit to NC - I, like you, felt sorry for her and I felt I owed her some understanding or forgiveness. However she stayed toxic and behaved atrociously so I went NC and do not regret it a jot. I tried to set boundaries first but she'd trample all over them.

I am one of four and not a single one of us is in contact with her now.

My children do not miss her, I do not miss her but for a while I did mourn the loss of the relationship I could have had.

Get yourself over to the stately homes thread, loads of advice on there. Set boundaries with her if you can't face NC, stick to them and learn to stick up for yourself. Every time she crosses a line pull her up. She's an adult but so are you, you're not a child any more and she's in your home. You hold the cards here.

plumjam2019 · 17/06/2019 11:54

Thank you to everyone who replied. I appreciate your advice and empathy. It’s a shit situation all round and it’s been a very painful couple of weeks for me, but I’m doing fine now, particularly now Father’s Day is over. (That ignites my mother’s rages with some force, as you may have guessed).

Tactless, but somehow it feels good to know I’m not the only person who has endured this kind of upbringing. Someone up the thread used the phrase “volatile and violent” and that was my childhood in a nutshell, although superficially we all appeared a model family. I do need some therapy I think, although I’m very happily married myself and a part of me wants to bury the old sorrows and just focus on the present and future.

OP posts:
plumjam2019 · 17/06/2019 11:57

To the PP who warned me my mother would lose interest once DD stopped being small and cuddly - I think you’re absolutely right. It probably explains the four children in quick succession that she then went on to mistreat.

OP posts:
Rainbowsintherain · 17/06/2019 12:04

Shorter visits are just not an option due to the distances involved
I’m going to assume she lives on the other side of the world? If she doesn’t a week plenty. My PIL live a days travelling away (car, plane, car), usually involving an overnight hotel stay due to flight times. We’ve gone for 5 days on more than 1 occasion. 2 days travelling 3 days there. Even from Australia she can come for a week. And stay somewhere else.

plumjam2019 · 17/06/2019 12:07

Scotland, not Australia! We are in the SW.

OP posts:
TeaForTheWin · 17/06/2019 12:08

Having had a narcissist for a gran and seeing the damage they can do, I would just tell her to fuck off and never darken my doorway again and I would tell my kid she had moved far away so couldn't come round much anymore and hope that in time she would be forgotten. Harsh now but, you're a grown adult and you know she is toxic, you know the damage toxic to do, no way in hell would I let that near my child. Because as soon as the kid is old enough to feel things like shame, granny wont be so nice anymore. Speaking as the granddaughter of a narcissistic bully - get your kid the hell away from her.

NewAccount270219 · 17/06/2019 12:10

My grandmother wasn't, I think, quite as bad as your mother, but my mum and her certainly had a very difficult relationship and she could be very unpleasant. She was always pretty nice to me, but I still never felt at all comfortable around her because I could tell my mum was unhappy and on edge. At two your DD might not pick up on that, but she will. It's actually quite confusing and upsetting for a small child to be told that this person who upsets mummy should be someone you love and trust and for everyone to just dance around the huge elephant in the room.

plumjam2019 · 17/06/2019 12:13

I want my daughter to have a relationship with her grandparents and extended family because it’s something we didn’t have growing up, and we felt the loss acutely. My mother Facetimes DD weekly and DD says she misses her Granny constantly when my mother is away.

OP posts:
Drum2018 · 17/06/2019 12:21

Not a hope in hell would I accommodate a mother like that and I wouldn't want to encourage any relationship between her and my child. History repeats and some day she could well turn on your dd. Do you really want to inflict that level of toxic behaviour onto your kids? You don't need to have her stay. It's a pathetic state of affairs that you have to hide out upstairs in your own house. You put up with this shit even though your Dh doesn't even like being in her company - why would you do that? You are an adult now, well able to tell that woman to fuck off and tell her how she affected you growing up.

Maybe therapy will help you to 'grow up' (I mean that in the sense that you will learn to let go of the child in you which you probably revert to in her presence, and be able to stand up to her). It will help you get past the FOG and also, most importantly, help you to be a completely different parent to your own child.

plumjam2019 · 17/06/2019 12:28

That’s exactly what happens, Drum2018. In my mother’s presence I revert to being the nervy child constantly looking out for trouble.

Your point about being a better parent to my own DD has really struck a chord. Already I struggle with discipline because I’m so fearful of turning into my mother.

OP posts:
PantsyMcPantsface · 17/06/2019 12:50

Actually my mum, while a shit mum to me, is a really good grandmother. I've had to be strong and assert some personal boundaries that there are issues I am not prepared to discuss with her as they become sticks to beat me with - but she was a shockingly emotionally manipulative narc mother... but for some reason she's moved past that to be a really good grandparent (I think marrying my stepfather was a large element of it - he'll tell her if she's being ridiculous).

It's taken a lot of time and I've taken my fair share of "oh you're just being neurotic" type comments from her when the kids were tiny, but now she really only has positive things to say about me and the kids - I do keep a watchful eye on it as the eldest gets older in case she slips back into old ways, but basically she's now cast herself in the role of the grandparent who does all the messy fun baking crafty stuff (which she's welcome to do - since she also does the clearing up the chaos bit as well) and playing the little rebellious old lady... suits me cos I hate the messy baking stuff!

Me standing my ground more also was the other element in tipping it over, and my brother turning into an utter twit so the whole golden child dynamic got completely blown out of the water - but for the moment it's working OK now the kids are into the infant school age rather than the baby phase.

user87382294757 · 17/06/2019 13:53

The problem is she might start asking your DD to stay with her etc, as she grows older, and that could be awkward. Mine did this (started contacting the DC before asking me). At that point I went NC after being a bit confused about what to do like yourself.

I don't like the way she's slagging you off to your daughter "Mummy's a killjoy" almost like she is ganging up with her. I can see that dynamic not being healthy in the future. e.g. she keeps buying toys and being 'fun granny' and you are the mean mum not letting her go to stay etc.

Maybe better to nip in the bud. If it helps any mine are just as far in distance as yours- and mine too divorced as well.

I started saying they could stay but in a B & B...and meet at mine for short periods. (they can get the train) then they started with the visiting them and contacting the Dc directly- and also at the same time being horrible to me over an illness and other things. It's not easy but I would suggest 1. Boundaries, maybe something similar. 2. If that doesn't work, NC- before your daughter is old enough to get too involved.

Mine are older now and don't ever mention my parents.

Hecateh · 17/06/2019 14:22

My mum only stopped when I started being assertive back. Caused some tears - she was very into manipulation poor me. I've changed from the manipulation because although that is what it was, she really was so sorry for herself if anyone stood up to her. I know I can get teary myself sometimes when I feel hurt even though I know I am being unreasonable.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page