Any secondary English teachers around?

[Pretendbookworm]

I’ve just finished studying at university for an English Literature degree. Ive been studying part-time for 6 years while working as a carer for the elderly, the dream has always to be an English teacher. I had some amazing teachers when I was at school. I was a really lonely child with mentally ill parents. Books and a passion for reading and then talking/debating about them really helped me get through some tough times. I would love to see that light bulb moment myself, to have lively discussions with pupils about the texts and get a debate going. Tbh I just love to talk about books and wider meanings behind them. I would love to help encourage other pupils to find a love of books.

But....

Oh my god in the news every week. Teachers quitting. No work/life balance. It’s scaring me off. Is it really that bad? Does it get easier at all? Should I run for the hills? My problem is I have spent a year looking at other options, going for interviews etc and no one will have me as I only have experience working in care. So I’ve decided that despite the negative press I will follow my dream. Am I making a big mistake?

Another secondary English teacher here. I recognise your instinct from your OP but feel it makes up about 5% of my teaching time (in the right school, with the right classes, with the right students) - and even then I feel like I'm failing the ones I recognise myself in as there are just too many demands to really nurture individual children in the way I'd ideally want to.

I really think teaching is about a passion for working with children first - subject comes second. And that's coming from someone who loves my subject - I just don't think it's enough to sustain a teaching career with its many demands. Especially if you are coming from a literature background and are teaching lang and lit and maybe even A Level language too - as a new teacher you get what you're given and English Literature a level is seen as a premium in most schools I've worked in!

I'm a secondary English teacher and I enjoy my job. The pupils are (generally) great and time spent in the actual classroom teaching really is fab. I would say research carefully when it comes to looking for a school to work in. My current school is a keeper: - staff there tend to stay for years; it's in a small village (catchment of surrounding rural areas) so it's got a real sense of community; my department is efficient, supportive and share resources (huuugely helpful!); and there is ongoing work towards striking a better work/ life balance. It's not perfect of course but having worked in much less supportive environments, I can honestly say it makes a huge difference. Teaching is hard work but so too are other jobs. After a couple of years it does get easier - especially with planning as you have a bank of resources built up by that stage to use / adapt. Marking will always be time-consuming and there's no way around that but it's part and parcel. It sounds as though you have good reasons for wanting to teach, you're not shy of hard work and you're aware of the pitfalls. Go for it! And good luck.

I love teaching and I don't even teach "my" subject any more (I teach noble's). I teach in AP/PRU and it can be incredibly challenging and motivation for learning can be very low at times, but there are still those moments where you are excited and they are excited and it is fabulous.

With your background (and aversion to high workload...) maybe look at AP. We would take on an unqualified teacher and train them. I was in mainstream forever before I moved, but I have mentored two unqualified teachers to QTS. You won't get so many of the Robin Williams moments, but if you might get your satisfaction from other successes too, then it is worth considering. Small classes, light marking. Full on days, but my evenings are my own, mostly.

My husband was a secondary English teacher then HOD for 15 yrs and this year he has given it all up to look after our disabled son. The change in him and our lives is immeasurable. Teaching robbed us of having a normal family life during term time. He was always working. I always had to be on standby to do everything because you can't get out of school easily and the workload is unbearable. There is no work - life balance. He is a naturally gifted teacher who got outstanding on every observation and is a brilliant behaviour specialist but in the end he hated it. Education has changed dramatically over the last decade or so. You need to do a good few trial days in different schools to get a feel. Not many teachers last long these days but you might enjoy it for a year or two!

Not many teachers last long these days but you might enjoy it for a year or two!

That isn’t actually true. Lots of teachers I know have been teaching for years and years and will continue to do so.

NQTs sometimes stay in the profession, some don’t. It certainly isn’t for everyone but don’t make out that everyone hates the job.

It definitely depends on what type of school you end up in. Finding one where the SLT trust their staff and believe in making workload as manageable as possible is worth its weight in gold. These types of schools usually want to keep effective English teachers too.

Get as much experience in different types of schools as you can. Don't rely on nostalgic memories of your own schooling.

I am finding this thread very depressing. The OP is passionate about literature - who better than to engender a passion for literature in young people? Or would we rather our kids are taught by automatons who are indifferent to their subject? We aren't doing ourselves any favours on this thread, fellow teachers.

OP I think you should try and get more experience in schools and then go for it if it is still what you want. Whereabouts are you based? Good schools with a sensible attitude to workload do exist- I find the workload manageable and I am a ft hod and have 2 dcs as I said.

But foxtong, engendering a passion for literature in young people isn't really what English teachers in state secondaries are there to do. It would be lovely if they were, but the main aims are about equipping kids with skills.

There isn't time to cover whole texts in class and most kids don't read them at home, so books get summarised so the lessons can be spent on developing students' abilities to pass the exams.

I agree with the PP who said a passion for working with young people should come first for secondary teaching, rather than a passion for the subject.

Oh, that is not true longines ! At least not the way I do it. Or, to be fair,most of my department. I have never summarised a book in 26 years of teaching!

A passion for young people is all well and good but when that passion erodes, does, or s challenged what is left is a love of the subject. Those teachers I know who don't love their subject get jaded and bored more quickly : and bore the kids, I find.

Sorry , computer playing up! Meant to dies , or is challenged

OP I have contact with lots of English departments over the county and your love of text and desire to share a love of reading is, I think, a rare but valuable quality now. If money is not an object, what about librarianship and finding an (increasingly rare) post in a school doing exactly that? Many great school librarians do not have formal librarian qualifications. Many schools no longer have librarians. Several schools use librarians for crowd control at lunchtimes as students want to chat and congregate in the library. Others may have a more peaceful atmosphere established. So you would have to choose carefully. Sadly I have heard many English teachers say in the last few years they do not read any more and do not see 'knowledge about Teenage fiction' as part of their role any more. That may mean is more important for you to go in to teaching but as others have said, go and spend say 2 days following a teacher in a maintained secondary school and the same in the independent sector. Look at the atmosphere and pace of the day and the content of what they are teaching. You can then make informed choices.

I wanted to be an English teacher but, following advice, did languages, didn’t become a teacher and now work in something to do with procurement.

If I had my time again I would do an English degree and become a teacher! I agree with a pp, that the worst that can happen is you go back to doing what you were doing before.

You need to try it and see. There is also the option of being a school librarian or doing private tutoring. Both of which would involve children and literature. I’ve also come across some very inspiring primary English teachers who truly enjoy their work.

I teach history rather than English but I love teaching. In the right school it’s the best job in the world. Like the OP I got into teaching because of love for my subject rather than a burning desire to work with young people. If I’m honest, I trained so that I could do something history-related for a few years whilst I worked out what I really wanted to do. I got the bug, and after 10 years I can’t imagine doing anything else. If there’s a sensible marking policy, a healthy attitude towards paperwork and good behaviour management then the workload is totally manageable.
I’d say go for it.

engendering a passion for literature in young people isn't really what English teachers in state secondaries are there to do

Surely it’s a nice plus point to be able to do so for at least the few who opt to do it at A level or university, because of your teaching.

We know. I know

But you don’t though, because you haven’t done it. You love literature, you love reading and you want to share that love with young people. Except- a good percentage of the young people won’t be interested, some will actively dislike literature, have no desire to read any text and a few may share your love.

Sometimes, those who love a subject and are talented at it, have difficulty imparting that, particularly when not everyone is engaged. The most intelligent physicist I ever saw, was a hopeless teacher, despite having immense knowledge.

Try it out before you commit, I think. And only in a school with a supportive team and SLT.

@Faffandahalf The Porter?!!! How much can you write about the Porter? We're in Wales so luckily diff exam board and quite nice lit questions this year.

@Pretendbookworm
Honestly, I've only been teaching for 10 years and have genuinely been looking into a change of career. I am finding it very hard to stay motivated and positive in such a negative environment: constant budget cuts; a massive change in pupil attitude in general; steadily growing work load with less time to do it; a reduced freedom to teach in a way that suits you with pressures to conform to the 'right way'. I will say though that you won't know unless you give it a try and you may love it. When it's good then it really is an amazingly rewarding job. I'm just finding those moments are very few and far between in the last few years.

I'm coming at this from a parent view rather than a teacher.

Ds1 and Ds2 have always been avid readers. Ds1 is mid GCSE, he is top set English and doesn't like breaking down a book into context and author's purpose. He feels it ruins a book for him when you put it under a microscope. I myself have an English Lit degree and it did kill my love of books for a while for this reason alone.

Ds1 is predicted 7+ but half the class of top set couldn't even tell you the detailed plot of Romeo and Juliet or even where extracts came from in the book. This is an outstanding school, fantastic English teacher so it isn't her, it is the pupils. They are apathetic. They don't care, they didn't choose this subject as an option, it is forced on them.

They don't want to engage with Shakespeare, half of them cannot read it. They are just waiting until they don' t have to do this shit anymore. Yes there are children engaged with the lessons, Ds1 being one of them, he has learned to like English lit, he very much enjoyed An Inspector Calls but didn't like the Poetry element for AQA. 15 poems to know how to break down when all he wants is his 9 in maths he loves loves loves maths, but again, how many children do?

Go and do work experience in a big city centre academy for at least half a term. Then you will be able to make an informed choice. There is no point asking on an Internet forum as so many people’s experiences will be different.

I’m a secondary English teacher now HOF in an indie where I mainly teach history and media. I love teaching and enjoy whatever subject I deliver because the kids are nice, school is generally supportive and I don’t have the pressures colleagues in the state sector have. I don’t think I would still be teaching if I still worked in a state comp especially now I have a DD.

Not a teacher but a TA in a lot of English lessons across the 11-16 range - I personally find English to be the most boring subject to support in AND the hardest to teach. I generally support bottom sets so my perspective is skewed but you will definitely have to teach some of those classes - and I can tell you that they are very hard work. (It’s is also absurdly exam orientated but that might just be my school.)
IMO every other subject can be differentiated very effectively but the ability to infer meaning from a text is an incredibly challenging thing to teach. It’s a painstaking process that would drive me mad. And I was bloody great at English! Also the planning and marking is worse I’m sure (though I don’t tend to say that to teachers in general!). The teaching is excellent across the department in my school but they seem to plan pretty much every lesson from scratch which no other department does.

In short, I am actually doing teacher training but I have swerved English even though I could teach it with my degree. Hats off to the teachers who love it though, I genuinely have a lot of respect as it’s a very challenging subject with a lot of pressure on it.

I’m going to stick my neck out (gulp!), put on my flame-proof suit and say that English is the hardest subject to teach. It is compulsory so many of the Key Stage 4 students, particularly (but not always) boys who hate writing/can’t read/write, are forced into it and just can’t do it, which inevitably leads to behaviour problems.

The pressure is enormous as the entire school’s reputation is hanging on the maths and English results, but maths is a lot easier to mark and, in my experience, students with behaviour problems find maths more accessible than English at GCSE level, as their isn’t much writing involved and you can always just guess - you can’t just guess a whole essay on Shakespeare!

Also the marking load can be completely unmanageable depending on your school’s marking policy.

Having said all that, it can be a very enjoyable and rewarding job if you go in with the right expectations and, in particular, find the right schools and English department for you. Have a read through the AQA specifications, read some teen fiction for KS3, look through teaching resources online and above all spend some time in schools. Whatever you decide, good luck!

*But foxtong, engendering a passion for literature in young people isn't really what English teachers in state secondaries are there to do. It would be lovely if they were, but the main aims are about equipping kids with skills.

There isn't time to cover whole texts in class and most kids don't read them at home, so books get summarised so the lessons can be spent on developing students' abilities to pass the exams.*

@LonginesPrime I disagree. To the contrary, We have to teach full texts now because the exam board can set any extract, and this is one of the ways the new lit specification is an improvement on the old. It's not like the old controlled assessment days when it was death by extract......

I very much see my role as entering a love of literature and I'm a successful hod leading a team of teachers whose role I believe is to also engender a love of literature.....I don't think this precludes us from also "teaching skills"

*the their/there mix up was a test of your grammar skills. Honest!

As a PRU Maths teacher I have to disagree with the idea that students with behaviour problems find GCSE Maths more accessible! Many of my students will not "guess". They will look at a problem solving or reasoning question, think "bugger that" and finish the paper in 15 minutes. Our English teacher would agree. There is an "in" in English (although admittedly much less so in literature than in language) that there isn't in Maths. Our literature problem is that most of our students come to us at the start of year 11. Different schools, different texts, nightmare for my English colleague.