Recommendations for Thailand/Vietnam with dcs

[zippyswife]

Planning a big holiday next year/Easter- dcs are 4,7,9 and would like a Thailand type holiday. Really don’t want anywhere too busy/touristy (not Patong). I loved kata beach 10 years ago but guessing that’s even more developed now. I don’t have a massive/endless budget at all- 1k pp approx. Any recommendations of places/areas to stay? Always fancied Vietnam but never been.

I took DS to Thailand last year ( he was 11)
We travelled round , Bangkok, Chiangmai and then Koh Samui. It was very easy , the people were so helpful and the facilities were all great . Fabulous holiday
I can highly recommend the Old Capital Bike Inn in Bangkok . Great location and amazing decor .
I though about Vietnam, it looks amazing . But Thailand was wonderful

Please don't go elephant riding or to the elephant 'shows'. The vast majority are cruel, with chains and bullhooks in evidence.

Are you thinking beach holiday or something a little more action packed?

If the latter, check out Chiang Mai, which has lots of action and adventure type activities available - though you'd need to check on any age restrictions

Please don't go elephant riding or to the elephant 'shows'. The vast majority are cruel, with chains and bullhooks in evidence.

They’re all disgusting and cruel.

Same goes for the monkey ‘shows’ and the ‘setting free’ of birds in a box.

There are plenty of rescues who allow visitors to appreciate the animals whilst teaching kids of the unethical alternatives out there though, if you’re interested of course.

Have a look at the UK charity Mahouts Elephant Foundation working in Thailand, (and offering a fundraising walking/camping with rescued elephants experience).

We went to Vietnam last Easter, stayed in Hanoi a couple of nights (you want to stay at the weekend as they ban traffic around the lake so it’s not quite so scary crossing the roads). The water puppet theatre is great for children as is the museum of ethanology.
We then did a boat trip to Bai Tu Bay which is the less commercialised bit next to halong Bay.

Then stayed in between Hoi An and Hue at the Angsana hotel in Lang Co, which has fabulous family friendly 2 bed suites with own pool at very reasonable rates.

We then went to Cambodia for a few nights, but that was far too hot...although very enjoyable too. We also rode in an elephant around the temples, we checked out the operator and elephants first to make sure they were being well treated.

The only thing I would say is that maybe your children are a bit young? Our youngest is 8 and even then there were some things that she didn’t appreciate.

We also rode in an elephant around the temples, we checked out the operator and elephants first to make sure they were being well treated.

If an elephant is being ridden, it is not being treated well.

The operator clearly forgot to mention that it will have been captured at birth and taken away from its mother. Stuffed into a tiny cage and beaten into submission. Tethered to a tree and made to walk in circles for days without food or water and if it stops it gets stabbed. Until finally it submits to the human’s control.

It then gets chained up and used for tourism. Whenever it stops through exhaustion it gets stabbed in its back or thigh or hit in the eye with a hook. The leg clamps used will have spikes in to prevent it from running.

This is standard practice.

The vast majority of elephants rescued from tourism (of those that survive) are blind. Nearly all have broken limbs and fractured spines.

You’re either ignorant or just plain stupid if you genuinely believed what you were doing wasn’t cruel. Either way you need to educate yourself.

Krabi is excellent with kids. Nice beaches, you can take a boat trip to phi phi island, there are nice tours inland to hot springs like emerald pool. We loved it

Couldn't agree more about the elephants. This is one of the few places that is genuinely reputable (no riding, amongst other things). I did the Elephant Highlands trip and it was the most memorable experience of an action packed 3 week trip. I'd recommend it to anyone - but you do need to book months in advance. www.elephantnaturepark.org/enp/

^ seconded.

I booked to stay one week there and ended up staying for 3.

Have a look at the website responsibletravel.com. They list a number of places to support and others to avoid, including in Thailand. Unfortunately many claiming to be elephant 'sanctuaries' are anything but. Any interaction with humans is an unnatural behaviour for elephants. Most obviously this is playing football, painting, posing for photos and so on, but also includes being bathed, ridden or training tourists as Mahouts. To get to the stage of doing these unnatural things and being (mostly) safe around tourists, the elephants' spirits have been broken by pain, fear, loneliness and starvation. What even well-meaning tourists usually see is not usually the harsh reality. There has been a surge in elephant tourist activities in Thailand because they bring in money. Please spend your's kindly and wisely.

Thanks for all the replies.

I’ve done legit elephant sanctuaries in Sri Lanka previously. Don’t worry I’m not going to be riding elephants or wanting to watch them paint!

Krabi sounds like a good option. I guess beach and pool, fairly quiet but still with lots of food/market places would be my ideal. A bit of culture would be good but I don’t think dcs would be overly interested (although to be fair they are pretty interested in culture/experience rather than just a sanitised/westernised holiday)

What are the beaches like in Vietnam versus Thailand?

Tbh the town of Krabi really didn't impress me - it's a useful staging post for the islands, but there wasn't a vast array of food on offer and not much to do in town itself except for the Tiger Temple (no tigers, just kleptomaniac monkeys, a punishingly steep climb and a beautiful view. I wouldn't go back.

You could consider flying into Bangkok and doing all the markets (eg Chatuchak market isn't too be missed), street food and culture (eg Grand Palace) and then get a train down to one of the islands for some relaxation?

The Man In Seat 61 website is an invaluable guide to train travel abroad - I've used it everywhere from Spain to Thailand and it has never failed me yet.

Fuckit - no the elephant we rode on wasn’t blind, or lame, it had no sores on it’s legs or anywhere else on it’s body. When I initially went over it wasn’t ready as they were having a rest. The ones that go around the temple only work for 1.5 hours in the morning and afternoon 5 days a week and the operators and mahouts are regulated by the Cambodian government.

People have ridden on elephants for thousands of years.

OP the beaches were lovely, soft sand, but not very manicured, which we didn’t mind.

It seems like there's a need for a whole separate thread about captive elephants, but hopefully this thread will still help raise awareness a little bit, as well as helping the OP with her travel plans.

Elephants aren't made to carry humans or weight on their backs, and permanent spinal damage can be caused, as well as swellings, sores and blisters, (sometimes infected), from the chair. These, as well as signs of malnourishment, dehydration, arthritis, foot problems and post traumatic stress, can be hard, (even for well-meaning animal loving tourists), to spot.

underneath your ignorance is astounding.

Facts are wasted on some people.

We did Vietnam when the kids were 8&6 and then malaysia when they were 10&8. Both were fab. Vietnam was more challenging in that English is not widely spoken at all and travelling around isn’t so easy as the transport infrastructure isn’t great. We stayed in services apartments in Hanoi. They were fab and meant you got an entire flat which is brill for families, especially families of 5. We stayed at Somerset west park and Somerset grand. We also travelled to kat bah. Was lovely but obviously getting touristy. The kids lived the ferry journeys and the tropical feel of it all, they weee less keen on the city.
Malaysia was also brill. Very very easy to get around. We did Kuala Lumpur, Georgetown/Penang and Langkawi. Again we used the Somerset services apartments in Kuala Lumpur.

If anyone feels they can put to one side the torture of the elephant's training and the (at best) unnatural and limited life usually led when not actively working, the guidance is:

• Preferably ride on the elephant's neck behind his or her ears.
• If a chair is used, it must be lightweight.
• Only one person of light or average weight (not overweight or obese) should ride in the chair for a maximum of one hour, together with the mahout riding behind the elephant's ears.
• At most, two people of light or average weight (not overweight or obese) should ride in the chair for a maximum of 45 minutes, together with the mahout riding behind the elephant's ears.

Anything more will cause the elephant discomfort, and in many cases severe pain and longterm health problems.

Beware the mahout carrying the bullhook or stick possibly with nails, because this is what makes the elephant submit to working. A bullhook or whatever doesn't have to be used in your presence, but it's the fear of it for the elephant. Sadly they have usually known to fear them since babyhood.