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You know- if I could get women to change one thing they routinely do.....

48 replies

BertrandRussell · 22/05/2019 13:31

......it would be to stop us being self deprecating all the time. Stop calling our podcasts “Scummy Mummies” and “Guilty Feminists” Stop apologising- unless we’ve actually made a mistake. Allow ourselves to take up physical and virtual space. Stop being accommodating and appeasing. Stop thinking about how to make other people feel better all the time! it’s possible (usually) to be nice and kind without being a doormat!

OP posts:
ThatCurlyGirl · 22/05/2019 17:10

Totally agree with this:

It’s a bit of a shame that people think the opposite of self deprecating is brusque or snippy.

We are always categorised like in Madonna / Whore syndrome. The older I get the less I care what box people put me in and realise I'm comfortable (along with most people) in the middle!

Baskerville · 22/05/2019 17:17

It’s a bit of a shame that people think the opposite of self deprecating is brusque or snippy.

Or, God forbid, 'bossy'.

pallisers · 22/05/2019 17:22

I think that is the point. No man thinks he has written a brusque or snippy email if he says "Reminding you that the report is due today at 5. Thanks"

Lllot5 · 22/05/2019 17:23

I noticed this on 8 out of 10 cats does countdown. All the women guests pretend they can’t count or spell. ( not Rachel or Suzy).
I know it’s done for comedic purposes, but the men don’t do it half as much. Once you notice it it’s everywhere.

BarnabasTheMaineCoon · 22/05/2019 17:28

I have a friend who is a professor and top rated in her field (scientific) who used to do this, but I cured her Grin. She also used to wear black all the time because 'it's slimming', she didn't even really like it and it didn't suit her.

EastMidsGPs · 22/05/2019 17:29

I would ban women from using two words:

only as in I am only an admin assistant or I am only a SAHM - there are lots of other examples I could give. You never hear a man say I am only a plumber.

Should this bloody word puts so much pressure on the user.

Also, it is not OK for women to say and believe 'they are no good at maths'. It isn't a given.

willywillywillywilly · 24/05/2019 10:03

I also scan my emails.
Someone told me a great thing to put in (not woman-specific).

If something you're doing has been justifiably delayed, instead of saying "sorry for the delay", say "thanks for your patience on this" - it then puts the other person in the position of having done you a favour (as equals) rather than putting you in the position of grovelling to them.

RubberTreePlant · 24/05/2019 10:18

Stop sterotyping women. I don't "routinely do" anything of that ilk. Ever.

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 24/05/2019 10:28

Helen Mirren said that if she could give her younger self one piece of advice, it would be to tell more people to fuck off.

EastMidsGPs · 24/05/2019 10:31

Was thinking about this thread yesterday as I am currently doing some support work in a local secondary school with attached 6th form college.
I have been based in the Business Studies, Economics 6th form room and the wall displays are gradually making me more and more angry. I am seriously thinking about how I can address it before I leave.
So what is making me seeth?
On one wall they have 'successful businessmen' with 9 pictures. 2 are women - Karen Brady and Anita Roddick ummm well I suppose if it is about men, there shouldn't even be two women (alas only 1 still alive). The men include Alan Sugar and James Dyson. Whole other discussion there! Although as a positive Levi Roots is there.

The other main wall has famous entrepreneurs and their motivational quotes.
Richard Branson appears twice. The 3 others are: Stove Jobs, Bill Gates and Mark Zukerman.
Sloppy and lazy display, unless it is all designed to promote indignation and discussion amongst the students (judging by the other stuff on the walls I doubt it).
Yet this is a good 6th form college, I know because they have quotes from OFSTED everywhere.

EastMidsGPs · 24/05/2019 10:34

Typos acknowledged.

BertrandRussell · 24/05/2019 10:43

“Stop sterotyping women. I don't "routinely do" anything of that ilk. Ever.“

Good. But I don’t think you know what “stereotyping” means.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 24/05/2019 10:49

It takes literally no longer to speak or type friendly words than it does to keep things factual. When I visit the office (I'm a remote worker) my colleagues are so happy to see me I get bear hugs and people leaping out of seats to greet me.

Cos I'm nice to work with. It would be a sad day when I extended a professional handshake and said 'kind regards' (aka do fuck off) to people I've known for years.

RubberTreePlant · 24/05/2019 10:53

I'm not going to split hairs about sterotyping v generalising.

Women are forever being told that "we" are meek, self-deprecating, apologetic & unassertive. It sets an expectation.

Many women are not at all like that.

BertrandRussell · 24/05/2019 11:02

“Women are forever being told that "we" are meek, self-deprecating, apologetic & unassertive. It sets an expectation.“
Ah. So women’s fault again. Classic misogynist bollocks.

OP posts:
soundsystem · 24/05/2019 11:03

I'm another one who is really trying to cut down on this. Like Dieme I don't think it's a bad thing to acknowledge someone is busy, but I'm trying to do it without apologising for doing my own job, which involves chasing them.

So "Appreciate you've got a lot on at the moment. Could you let me know when I'll be able to get X to me so I can manage expectations?"

Rather than "sorry to chase - I know you're busy - I could you just let me know when you might be able to get X to me?"

RubberTreePlant · 24/05/2019 11:08

Women are forever being told that "we" are meek, self-deprecating, apologetic & unassertive. It sets an expectation.“

Ah. So women’s fault again. Classic misogynist bollocks.

What? In what way is pointing out that women are negatively stereotyped, saying that women are at fault? Confused

BertrandRussell · 24/05/2019 11:15

“It takes literally no longer to speak or type friendly words than it does to keep things factual”

As I said in my OP- perfectly possible to be nice and kind without being a doormat.

OP posts:
Sarcelle · 24/05/2019 11:16

In a similar vein when somebody (a female) posts a photo of themselves on here and other forum, say asking an opinion on a piece of clothing, without fail they say, "excuse the hair, lack of make up" etc - apologising for their faces. It drives me nuts.

Iamblossom · 24/05/2019 11:20

I would suggest to a lot of women they need circa 50% less orange foundation than they have applied.

[perhaps misses point of thread]

reetgood · 24/05/2019 11:27

I think it’s quite a difficult one to reprogram yourself to do though. It’s so insidious and starts so early. I remember a teacher telling me he’d put me up for a leadership development challenge thing, because I was ‘bossy’. Hmm As someone who favours and feels safer with a more direct communication style, I learnt to soften the approach as directness from a woman can often read to others as confrontational. Clear evidence here, where the absence of apology reads as brusque.

bigKiteFlying · 24/05/2019 11:54

I used to start every email to people who were late doing their bit with "sorry to be a pain, but" or "sorry to chase but".

DH does this - I over hear work phone calls and cringe but I think working in IT I learnt to be more direct and to the point - there only so much time before a man talks over you or stops reading rest of e-mail - so pointless apologises and extraneous stuff distracts, and no one really cares.

I do have issues with language though - I think rather than this is so occasionally catch me out but then I have family who will kick off, Fil especially but also my parents, if I’m seen to be dictating where as suggestions are fine – sometime that worth the fight and others not.

On other hand MIL and FIL are great role models to me as well as kids for walking up and just asking for information of people – polite smile and straight into the question.

I’ve never sent my work saying it’s crap before hand – though I remember having to do an induction week early 20s and a public speaking bit and apparently I said right before I went up oh well I’m bad at this they very publicly pulled me up on it afterwards – it cause me to realise every meeting of new people/ big event when my Mum would ring to wish me luck but every time in conversation would tell me how shit I was with people or how bad a public speaker I was.

I called her out on it a year later and she was horrified she apparently hadn’t realised she was doing that – to be fair she’s never done it since.

I think I may sometimes have said something about makeup lack or hair or how tidy house is usually to pre-empt comments from other women when I’ve been back footed previously though I try not to as there are better ways of dealing with such situations.

bibliomania · 24/05/2019 18:41

I say "I'm sorry the house is a mess" in an attempt to give the (entirely false) impression that it's usually cleaner/tidier and they just caught me at the wrong moment.

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