How long to continue this consequence?

[Thistledew]

DS is nearly 3 and has been reliably potty trained for about 6 months.

He seems to be having a second episode (the first was over a weekend about a month ago) of deliberately wetting himself as a form of protest when he is not getting his way about something.

He did it today- weeing on the sofa in the living room and again on an upholstered chair in his room.

As a consequence he has not been allowed in the living room on his own and the chair has been removed from his room.

How long should I keep up the consequence? Should I make tomorrow a fresh start or should I keep it in place for another day to remind him of what is not acceptable?

They can definitely be doing it deliberately! My not quite 2yo went through a charming stage of protesting bedtime by taking their nappy off and seeing in the cot. Lucky it didn’t last long as they were too young for consequences and we were going nuts.

I don't punish for accidents.

I know he still has an occasional one - maybe once every couple of weeks and usually when he is on the way to the potty and doesn't quite make it. I ask him if he wants help changing his clothes and get him to wipe up the wee with a cloth or sponge but I'm not cross with him in any way.

I think you have a very high expectations of a child who is not yet even 3.

My son is 3 and a half and I wouldn't dream of instigating consequences around toileting behaviours.

2 year olds are not very developed cognitively - that's the whole point of them. He doesn't have the ability to think through situations and manipulate outcomes that you think he does.

I think you're possibly creating as many issues as you're attempting to solve. Isolating a toddler because you don't like their behaviour tends to lead to more behaviour you won't like - as happened today. This is because they can't contain and process big or difficult feelings without your help and containment.

When I get into corners like this where I've had unrealistic expectations of my children, I try to think how I would talk to a friend's child of the same age.

I would suggest stop seeing everything as conflict, definitely don't continue any 'consequences' and just be a lot more unbothered about the whole thing.

I have to do something about the grabbing and biting as he will just continue until he has caused a hurt. I either have to restrain him as gently as possible or to put a physical barrier between us until he calms down.

If there is any other way of dealing with this, please let me know.

The consequences I imposed today for the deliberate wetting worked as he then used his potty perfectly for the rest of the day.

Isolation is fine. It works very well for most preschoolers (it's not suitable for all children), but it needs to be 2 or 3 minutes in the same room or just outside. Not sending him to his room for an extended period.

Gently holding is also fine.

Just pick which works best for him.

Some children need the space of time out. Some children need the closeness of a gentle hold (or a time in).

It's ok to say No to the behaviour, and to block/ restrain them if need be, but teach him what he can do instead of acting out, instead of just punishing him or giving him consequences.

When he is calmer talk about how he was feeling. Talk about feelings in general. Talk about where you feel the feelings, and what you want to do when you feel that way (my DS says "I feel angry in my feet. I want to kick, kick, kick"). Talk about better ways of handling that emotion, or sorting out a problem or disagreement. Don't expect immediate results because he's a toddler and not in full control of his actions or emotions yet. But long term this will have better results.

Also, just try and pre-emp and avoid the behaviour wherever possible (without giving in to unreasonable demands).

Pay attention to his physiological state. I find lots of 'bad' behaviour has tiredness/hunger/thirst/coming down with something/not enough exercise at its base.

Pick your battles.

Time out seems to suit him much better. He might do some cross crying for a couple of minutes but quickly calms and is happy again. When I've had to hold him because there is no door to close between us he ends up with far more upset crying.

Today he even started to get grabby and I asked him if he needed to go next door and play by himself for a while. He said yes, took himself off and came back a few minutes later much calmer.

Something about your attitude makes me rather uncomfortable. You need to chill out, especially about the potty training.

You should not be punishing such a young child. I totally agree with @DialANumber

Isolation can be very distressing to a child who is out of control because they can't handle their own emotions. You are basically telling them you can;t handle their emotions either, which feels scary to them.

I have tried teaching him that when he wants to grab or bite he can clench his fists and blow on them instead to chase all the cross away, but it doesn't seem to resonate with him.

A time-out is distressing to some children, generally those who are struggling with other issues beyond normal stroppy behaviour.

The rest cope just fine with sitting on the stairs for two or three minutes with their carer in close proximity. It's an inconvenience and annoyance to be removed from the game/their toys, not a great emotional upheaval.

Space works for DD2 as well. She has a terrible temper, the red mist descends. I send her off to get over it by herself. Usually to her room as often it is tiredness causing the issue, then, once calm she’ll come back and apologise. Has been doing this since she was about 3.

DD1 on the other hand was often naughty when tired and invariably fell asleep on the naughty step - which did resolve the problem

I don't use naughty step/time out spot etc because I know that there is not a chance in hell that he would stay in one place for long enough and the fight to get him to do so would be worse than shutting a door between us until he is calm.

So one vote for a fresh start, one for continuing and several for letting him pee wherever he wants to without censure!

He understands enough to know that he shouldn't just wee anywhere, but probably doesn't understand why. He needs to learn that the reason that wees go in the potty is because it is time consuming and annoying to have to clean up ones that do not, and it means our clothes are uncomfortable and our chairs can't be sat on. That's all I want him to learn. I would rather he learn that than only weeing in the potty otherwise mummy will be cross.