Can you see Wales becoming an independent country?

[hyweldda]

Can you see Wales becoming an independent country in the future?

Say if Scotland were to become independent following Brexit; I think it's looking increasingly likely.
Especially amongst younger people, and with more being educated in Welsh, the murmurs are growing stronger.

I believe that currently, most Welsh people have at least an inkling which side their bread is buttered, even though they voted Leave.

You cannot separate out London.

@feduuup

I'm afraid you are sorely mistaken. Perhaps it is your lack of willing to debate clearly as positioned by yourself in your first post that is hindering you. You do seem to have a chip on your shoulder, or perhaps just plain bigotry towards anyone who disagrees with you.

I won't get offended by your view of me being "less educated" than you, purely because it's most probably wrong.

I'm Welsh, I live in Wales. It will never happen. We are far too poor for starters. Did you know that we are one of the poorest regions in the whole of Europe? And that will get worse when/if Brexit happens.

@hyweldda you're the one that asked me to put forward an academic debate without attempting to do so yourself barring making correlation between language and nationalism (I'm not saying I have offered an academic argument, I have no technical experience!)

I actually don't have a chip on my shoulder, I am a proud welsh woman who did my undergrad dissertation on this topic in an historical context, not saying that as any form of qualification for my opinions but just to say it's not coming from a place of anger but genuine interest and scepticism!

I honestly can't see Scotland breaking away.

Brexit has opened so many people's eyes to the issues breaking away, hard borders in Ireland, the same at Carlisle? The economic uncertainty that breaking away brings. The 101 things that just weren't thought about.

Even nationalist are really questioning the issues. So no I can't see Scotland breaking away nor can I see Wales following.

@feduuup

Thanks for your response, I'm sure you can now debate it properly as to fulfil the interest in the topic! Have a nice night :)

What industry does Wales have?

I honestly can't see Scotland breaking away.

Brexit has opened so many people's eyes to the issues breaking away

Brexit has opened many Scottish eyes to the issues of breaking away from Europe. Hence why Independence is now increasingly likely.

@hyweldda lovely, just let me know when you have an argument for us to both debate properly ;)

Ah Op I see you are getting the replies along the lines of "too wee, too poor, too stupid" that Scotland was told time and time again at the last IndyRef

@feduuup

Likewise! Please do let me know when you are willing to debate rather than shutting the conversation down due to being disagreed with. I provided my view on the debate, you provided, well- nothing! Anyhow, let's not let this de-rail the thread, which is obviously of interest to both of us.

With indyref1, I was very against Scottish independence, not least English taxpayers also developing the oil industry, Scotland being able to unilaterally decide on no prescription charges, no uni fees, free elderly care, thinking, I believe not incorrectly, who the chuff is paying for this?

And Faslane.

However, we Brexited.

We did the stupidest, most irresponsible, short-sighted thing possible

Scotland didn't.

Thus I feel now that Scotland should be allowed to cut itself free from this shitshower.

But, dear Scotland, from what I've heard, among many other things, sort out your education. You were world class. Sort out your feelz from your STEM.

Well, I've got an appetite for it, which I never used to have. I can see a referendum happening in the next 5 years - whether we'd go for it is another matter...

@Slurpy

I agree. I think if we held a referendum following Scotland’s leaving in the next couple of years. The result wouldn’t likely be leave but there’d be much higher support than expected.

Anyhow, the current trend would support continuing devolution. Such as the rejection of the welsh assembly in the 70s, narrow passing in the 90s and since then growing support for it to have more powers.

England can't afford England's own spending either

Given all the cuts to spending, what on earth is it all getting spent on (Brexit and HS2 aside)?

Wales could model itself on Estonia which is a small and very successful country.

Estonia doesn't have the internal geographical obstacles Wales has and it is in a better position (also geographically) to make the best of what it has. It isn't like for like. I'm sorry but it isn't.

No.

I do think there will be increasing divergence from England. The education system is now different no SATS yearly national test Y2-Y9, keeping A*-G at GCSE and AS levels, the Welsh income tax that apparently coming in we got letters about, free prescriptions for all - things like this will continue and they may start to fuel the idea.

However I think infrastructure - train network, and the economy would need to developed further and a more visible Welsh Assemble with vision for all of Wales would also be needed.

It's not something I'm hearing people talk about really.

Brexit has opened so many people's eyes to the issues breaking away, hard borders in Ireland, the same at Carlisle?

But the Brexiters don't seem to care about the Ireland issue.

Even nationalist are really questioning the issues. So no I can't see Scotland breaking away nor can I see Wales following.

I can see Scotland voting for independence, depending on the outcome of Brexit. If it's at the worse end of predictions, considering Scotland didn't vote for it, I could see demands for independence growing and perhaps succeeding.

Not so much for Wales. Though Brexit and how appallingly our MPs have been behaving does make it a slightly tempting idea!

I'm in Scotland and I can't see Scottish independence happening, let alone Welsh.

It doesn't sound like you're entirely neutral towards the issue OP

No.

Wales is a nation but it could never be a state. The roads, railways, power lines, gas mains, internet and phone and everything else all runs east-west, into and out of England.

I live in Wales and have done all my life. Can't see it being independent. Very few people I know want independence.

I love Wales and would love to move there.

Born in West Wales, live in South Wales, nobody I know would even consider independence. Why would they?

Interesting topic. My first reaction was to think Wales, having had her natural assets of coal exploited without proper recompense (investment when the mines closed), maybe is "too poor" to go it alone now.

But then I thought, I know how many lies are told about Scottish finances, to the point that may still.believe we're subsidised! Maybe it's the same for Wales?

And given the new drive for green energy, I remembered the recent cancellation (by WM) of a wave turbine at Swansea, which could have revolutionised the Welsh economy.... www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/swansea-bay-tidal-lagoon-renewable-energy-wave-electricity-generation-a8416401.html

Maybe Wales is only "too poor" because it's being mismanaged from WM?

@HirplesWithHaggis , the geography makes it bloody difficult to be anything like self sustaining. Westminster didn't create the geography.