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Tax credit and work misery

40 replies

Whatistheworldcominto · 28/04/2019 09:58

Hi, I'm in a bit of a situation and just seem to be facing a brick wall whichever way I turn and I don't know what to do. It's quite long and complicated.
I work on an 8 day rota and get paid weekly, the reason for the 8 day rota is that it ensures that no one gets stuck with all the busy shifts all the time and so it falls forward a day each week. Each shift is 10-7 but we get half an hour taken off for a break, so each shift is 8.5 hours. So taking into account the way the rota works, for one 4 week period I technically get paid for 25.5 hours a week, then the next 4 week period I get paid for 34 hours a week. Working it out over the year, on an average, that's 29.75 hours a week. I always work 4 shifts in a row, but they may be Mon, Tue, wed, Thurs which is 34 hours in the same week or then it may be Fri, sat, sun and Mon, first 3 shifts in one week, the next shift in the following week, so 3 shifts that week.
I've worked there a year and have done a fair amount of overtime since I started, and changed my tax credits to reflect this as it happened. It was sometimes just starting 2 hours early for a few weeks, or for 6/8 weeks at a time was doing 5 nights instead of 4 to cover after someone left the other job. That happened 3 times.
I am a single parent and was recieving wtc and ctc, around £100 per week for both. Now that the overtime has stopped (I have no choice in this) I have changed tax credits to 29 hours (they told me to declare 29 because they round down so the .75 doesn't count) and have lost £30 a week. Speaking to them I've apparently lost a 30 hour element? I had no idea this existed and I was getting it, but tbh, it seems really unfair that for the sake of 15 minutes a week, I'm now really going to struggle to survive. My income overall has dropped by about £150 a month, for perspective that's the council tax and water bill. I already had very little leeway in my budget, once the essentials are covered I'm left with nothing really.
I've been looking at other pt jobs, and applied for a few, no joy because employers want my full flexibility which I can't offer, due to my job. As I'm on a changing rota I can't commit to one or two set days a week either all the time. No one is interested because they'll have to work around me and businesses don't want that.
I'm totally stuffed, I'm looking for something that will give me 30+ hours but they're just not there for the type of work I can do, it's all zero hours. I've worked really hard to repay debts accrued in a crap relationship and my DD is 16 so I don't have childcare issues either.
I don't know what to do, I'm going to end up not being able to pay everything I need to, I can't cut back, I'm in social housing, I already need to restrict fuel use, don't have sky etc, don't have a car etc. I don't have anything I can cut back on. I'm heading back to bailiffs and debt and I can't see a way out. I'm so scared.

OP posts:
EleanorReally · 28/04/2019 11:08

you could raise that issue with your employer,say you need a set day off for another job, you need the extra hours, which they cant give you.
perhaps they can be reasonable?

backaftera2yearbreak · 28/04/2019 11:18

Some people who work are better off under universal credit. I say this as a welfare rights advisor. Go the the CAB and ask them to do a better off calculation for you.

Whatistheworldcominto · 28/04/2019 11:19

@Mumoftwoyoungkids

Yes - a quick google shows that you get “up to £810 a year” if you work 30 hours a week or more.

And you work 29.75 hours!

What a bugger! (Sorry - no other way of describing it!)

So you basically need to work something like an extra 13 hours a year to average on 30 hours.

I'd be wanting to up my hours to more and up my income, in one job, or across 2 or even 3, to take me out of TC completely. But it's proving hard to find places that don't demand exclusively flexibility or at the latest one set day a week.
I guess the easiest is a couple of extra shifts at work. Can you make it clear to your boss that you are in this slightly weird position so totally happy to work an extra shift here and there - even if it is a really unpopular day.

I'm going to try speaking to them and see if something can be worked out. 5 nights would be ideal, however they don't like that they're so hard to cover for holidays and sickness, so I don't know if they'll go for it, and anyway, it also means the other person losing a night too, they may not want to.

Or some form of temping? In the summer there are often things like agricultural shows near where I live. They require colossal amounts of staff for 2 or 3 days so usually hire loads of students.
Been looking at these but I don't drive, so that cuts me out of a lot of those things, which is a shame because I love those shows but can't usually afford to go! Unless a friend has qualified their horses and then I go as groom!
Or a job from 8pm til midnight one day a week? (Bar work, cleaning?) It would be really hard if you were working both sides of it but it would bump you up.
Again, it's the lack of total flexibility I'm struggling with, I can't do anything between 8pm and 9am because of travel on top of work time, and although I'm paid 8.5 hours, I actually have to be there for 9 hours - I get 30 mins unpaid break. If I could count that half hour even though I don't get paid for it it'd be fine. It's a bit crap that I work on my own as well so I can't even leave (not that anything would be open for me to go to though!) In tthat half an hour!

OP posts:

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Mumoftwoyoungkids · 28/04/2019 11:26

Ooh - sorry I’ve just realised it is 10pm - 7am not 10am - 7pm! Doh!

Whatistheworldcominto · 28/04/2019 11:32

@Mumoftwoyoungkids

It's complicated! And due to the crap bus service it makes a 9 hour shift into closer to 11/12 I'm unavailable to be anywhere else. I have almost an hour wait each side of the shift plus travel time of 40 minutes.

OP posts:
Whatistheworldcominto · 28/04/2019 11:33

@backaftera2yearbreak

Thank you, I'll look into that and contact CAB.

OP posts:
WrongKindOfFace · 28/04/2019 12:12

I don't want to 'game' anything! I want to work and earn my living, and I'm trying to do that. I can't afford to live on my income and I'm looking for alternatives to up my income and drawing a blank. I'm not looking for advice on how to play the system, I'm looking for advice on how to survive this time.

I was criticising those whose suggested trying to play the system, not you. Sorry if that didn’t come across well.

Definitely get a better off calculation done. UC might work out better for you. There are some online calculators you can use in the interim to get an idea?

Whatistheworldcominto · 28/04/2019 12:44

@WrongKindOfFace

Ok, sorry if I overreacted, it's just an accumulation of trying everything I can think of and getting nowhere fast.
I can't force my employer to give me more hours, I can't force other employers to take me on too, I can't apply for 30+ hours jobs that aren't there.
I can't pay everything that needs paying on what I'm now getting.
I just feel like giving up, crawling in to bed and staying there.

OP posts:
squidge2010 · 28/04/2019 13:38

Definitely go to 'entitled to' and do a calculation. It sounds like you might be in a similar boat to me, I'm slightly better off on UC (and the one payment per month works better for me).
Getting paid weekly might be an issue for you with UC though. At least twice a year you'll get 5 weekly pay checks in your month long assessment so your UC entitlement will go down for that month. If you're good at budgeting though it might not cause you too many problems.
I've found CAB to be pretty useless but if you've got any money advice services near you they're usually quite helpful. If you can't find one with a quick google it's worth calling your local food bank. Even if you don't need a referral they should be happy to signpost you to the best advice service

pitterpatterbaby · 28/04/2019 13:44

I think you have disadvantaged yourself by rounding down instead of up. You'd never round down 0.75 to zero. You are clearly a very honest person so I would advise you to call the helpline and explain. We are talking 15 mins per week here. Your hours are an estimate for the year, is there a chance of advoc overtime? If so I think you could reasonably absorb the 15 minutes.

Rounding in hmrc is always done in favour of the customer. Good luck

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 28/04/2019 15:32

A full time job may not be available where you work but there must be something else that is there or will come up. Not every employer advertises as zero hours. It may be two part time jobs works to give you at least the standard 37 hours a week.

In a couple of years all your child related benefits will be gone, that's going to be far worse an impact than the loss of working tax 30 hour element.

Whatistheworldcominto · 28/04/2019 15:38

@pitterpatterbaby

I asked their advice on the 0.75 thing, because I wasn't sure, it was the advisor that told me they round down, so I was on 29 hours according to them. And that was confirmed when I rang again.
I am reasonably sure I will get those 13 hours over the year, in fact I'm positive because I've already done an extra 4 hours so it's less than 15 minutes a week already and that's only since April 1st.
The problem is if I change it, I can't prove that I'll get them until I do, so technically I'm still under 30 hours.
I'm going to ask for extra hours, and then change it as soon as my average hits 30 if I don't find something alongside, or they don't offer me permanent extra before that.

OP posts:
Whatistheworldcominto · 28/04/2019 15:54

In a couple of years all your child related benefits will be gone, that's going to be far worse an impact than the loss of working tax 30 hour element.

I'm aware of this. That's why I'm paying for my own training (and have been for the last couple of years) to boost my income - this job was a result of that and slightly above minimum wage, I am continuing with that, but it's been money gifts from family at Christmas/birthday that have paid for it - it's a slow process through lack of funds to be blunt. I'm not there yet though, and it doesn't solve the problems right now of my outgoings outstripping my income.

And 'must' there be something else? Because I haven't found it, I've looked, I've applied, I've had interviews and I continue to look, but other employers are reluctant to take on a worker that a) cannot commit to set days or b) cannot drop everything immediately to work, which I can't. I did get a few weekends bank shifts about 6 months ago, in fact I worked every Saturday night for 4 weeks, then my rota rolled around to working 4 Saturdays in a row, I couldn't work for the other company, they don't ring me anymore. I've already explained why my current employer doesn't like one person doing 5 nights - holiday cover, and should I ever be ill or injured, sickness cover.

Until a time where I'm offered a full time role that pays enough to live, I'm in a rut, trying to get out of it, but I'm not getting far.

OP posts:
NoBaggyPants · 28/04/2019 16:04

Rounding in hmrc is always done in favour of the customer. Good luck

For the purposes of the 30 hour element, rounding is not permitted. You either work 30 hours or not, and I've double checked the TC guidance to be certain.

Very frustrating situation OP, but you're doing the right thing in being honest.

Rainsun1 · 25/04/2020 16:41

@Whatistheworldcominto have you tried applying for the NHS? lots of jobs and not bad pay. You get night rate and weekend enhancements too.

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