Was this abuse?

[vegpatch]

This is something I have never spoken to anyone else about, ever.
I am in my mid 40's, married, 3 DCs.
My childhood was pretty troubled...DV, alcoholic parents, emotional abuse etc.
I have an uncle who, as a child, I worshipped. At the time he would have been mid 40s. He was DMs younger brother, lived in a cool city, had lots of money, liked and was friends with cool bands etc. In my teens he would take me to gigs, lend me records etc. I thought he was the coolest thing, as did his other nieces and nephews. We vied for his attention. To a degree he played us off against each other. When I was 16 he got divorced. They had 2 young kids and I would baby sit. One night I was staying over so I could look after his kids (he was coming back late) he got into bed with me, hugged me from behind, then stuck his hand in my pants while he kissed my neck. I didn't say anything or move or fight...I just lay there. After a while he said 'I'm sorry, that's all we can do' then got in his own bed. No mention of it was made in the morning.
At this point in my life, in all honesty, I was fairly off the rails. I drank a lot, took a lot of drugs, and slept around. I validated myself through sex and only felt that I had value as a sex object (obviously I have only realised this since...At the time i thought I was just free spirited).
Any way...I still idolised this man in lots of ways. Next time I babysat he kissed me as I left...properly, full on kissing. I pulled away and he said something along the lines of being unable to help himself and how I was being the mature one. In honesty, I was flattered and felt that I had 'beaten ' the other nieces and nephews in the battle for his attention.
I was pretty screwed up and clearly desperate for attention.
Anyway, over the next few weeks he continued to comment on my appearance in secret at family gatherings etc...he would come into a room where I was alone and tell me I looked hot and did I know what I was doing to him.
Long story short, one night I went to his house with my mother. We drank a lot...most of a bottle of whiskey. Yes..I was 16, 17 at most...Yes, my mum let this happen. Any way, my mum left and we ended up having sex. It felt consensual. In fact, I initiated a lot of it. I was relatively sexually experienced.
After that, no mention was ever made of it except that he asked me to never tell anyone. I kept away from him after that, though I didn't at the time equate what happened with abuse, especially as I initiated some of it, including giving him oral sex.
As I have got older I still see this man regularly at family events. We are polite and no mention is made of it...but as the years go by I can't help but go over it in my head. I'm the age he was now, and I sure as hell don't find 16/ 17 year olds sexually attractive. At the time I thought I was an adult, but clearly I wasn't. My kids are older than that and the thought of them having that type of experience with an adult horrifies me.
I also worry that I didn't speak up and he has other nieces. I tried as a teen to believe that I was in some way especially attractive, rather than that he was a paedophile.
I also suspect that my aunt (DMs sister) and my mother had some inkling of what was going on but chose not to address it..They too idolized him to an extent. Also, my family is generally a hot bed of lies and deceit and dodgy behaviour.
I think I'm ok. I'm messed up in some ways by my childhood...EDs, anxiety etc. But I'm happily married, with great, functioning, happy kids.
I sort of feel like either this should have marked me more and the reason it doesn't is because it was my fault, or that I am suppressing how I feel about it and one day it's going to hit me like a ton of bricks.

Hmmm. I think sex between older mean & younger women was perhaps more acceptable than it is now. I think your uncle acted badly & i would say that what he did edged on abuse because he was very covert about it & this implies that he betrayed you & maybe your mother too. Although you say she may have known - this would be very weird & actually I would say that this would be abusive - you know what its like to have dc of the same age - it wouod be sick to consider it appropriate for them to start sleeping with one of your siblings or your dh's sibling.
I wonder if you opened up a conversation with other relatives that you suspect might have been through the same (in a tactful way) - see what they say?
I would find it hard to keep this a secret & would want to ask my DM whether she knew about it? In a way you protected him by keeping hus secret about you. You shouldn't have to do this.

I'm glad things have worked out for you - despite this horrible experience. You haven't defined yourself by it & you don't need to start now.

Yes that’s abuse. Although at 16/17 and it feeling consensual it might be hard to prove in a court case BUT what he did was wrong. He groomed you from a young age. No uncle gets into their nieces bed, kisses their neck and puts their hands down their knickers. It’s abuse and mind games.

Don’t feel bad that it felt consensual and you felt you got your self worth from sex, it’s a common way to feel and nothing to be ashamed of. What he did was wrong

As someone above suggested, have you thought about mentioning it to the other nieces? Even if you don’t want to tell the full story, ask if he ever kissed them and see their reaction. There’s a good chance he played you all off against each other including abuse

He wasn't/isn't a paedophile though, was he? You were 16/17. He was out of order but that's all. As you said, you were quite experienced anyway.

I would say you were groomed and yes it was abuse. I'm sorry the other members of your family didn't protect you from that situation

That's abuse. Pure and simple. He was the adult. Even if you were coming onto him, he should've put you straight instantly and removed himself. He took advantage of his vulnerable, teenage niece while she mistakenly thought she was the one in control.
This was not your fault. He's in the wrong - not you.

No uncle should be initiating sex with their niece no matter what their age or sexual experiences.
He groomed you plain and simple and yes it is abuse . There is no other word for it. So sorry that happened to you vegpatch x

He groomed you. Although you were not underage , this was incest . It’s completely inappropriate for an uncle to have any kind of sexual relationship with his niece. If the relationship had developed , it would have been illegal for you to marry .

The fact that it is illegal for an uncle and niece to marry gives some indication of how wrong it is to have a sexual relationship even if both people are not underage

@Singlenotsingle no he's not technically a paedophile but that's still an awful thing to say. It doesn't matter if she was sexually experienced, she was groomed and then abused by a close relative.

@vegpatch It sounds like your childhood was very traumatic and unsafe, have you had any counselling or therapy to work through this? I also think it would be a good idea to talk to your cousins if you feel able as there could well be others feeling the way you do.

The fact that he was your uncle means that it was an inapropiate relationship and one he should have stopped before it began, and thats before you take your age into consideration. It would still have been wrong 10 years further on. Technically you were over the age of consent but as the older and more mature person he is the most responsible.

@ Singlenotsingle by 'sexually experienced' I guess I mean that I had had sex with a couple of other teenagers. I don't think any amount of previous sexual experience should make a difference though. As a teen I certainly had a sense that in some way I was 'spoiled goods' so it mattered less that this would happen to me, but as an adult I am (on some levels) able to recognise that the sexual history of a victim of abuse/ coercion is totally irrelevant.
@feelingsinister My whole childhood was pretty traumatic tbh. My mother's alcoholism, mental health issues and general disinterest meant that I was often (most if the time really) in situations that felt unsafe. She was often in violent relationships and would allow my brother and I to take some of the beatings instead of her. She was also massively inappropriate when drinking and would do things like tell us she had cancer (she didnt) to see how we responded. The whole thing was a mess. I have worked so hard to escape my background but I'm fairly sure that my own issues with anxiety/ ED/ OCD etc stem from all of this stuff.
I have never had counselling and don't even know how I would go about accessing it/ what to look for. I'm kind of terrified that the stability I have built is more fragile than I realise (massive imposter syndrome) and that if I probe too deeply it will all come crashing down around my ears, so I just don't address stuff, but recognise that this can't be healthy long-term. I have physical health issues that appear to be stress related (auto immune stuff etc) despite appearing on the surface to be totally in control.

Yes that was abuse, doesn't matter if you were over the age of consent*, or if you felt like it was consensual sex, he was your uncle and he would have known it was wrong.

(I know this, I was in a sexually abusive relationship when I was 17 with a boy the same age as me.)

Oh love your whole childhood was abusive. Mentally, physically and sexually.
Hats off to you for building a good life despite all that crap.
I don't know whether counselling would help and obviously your decision entirely and nothing to do with anyone else.
I did have a foster child who went for counselling which adressed his similarly awful childhood and it did cause an explosion of emotions that lead to long term consequences but I think sometimes you have to lance the boil as it were and fall apart a bit in order to rebuild and move forward.
But you sound like you have done a lot of this stuff yourself and that is a massive credit to you . X

@vegpatch in most areas you can self refer to your local IAPT service or you can speak to your GP. They can do an assessment with you and recommended what would be the most appropriate treatment. That might be counseling, CBT (possibly trauma focused) and maybe even EMDR which is a treatment primarily used with people with PTSD and complex trauma and is magic!

It's definitely worth looking into. You've been through a huge amount and the impact that can have on you shouldn't be underestimated.

You deserve to be heard and understood.

Therapy is hard but if you find the right treatment and a good therapist it could be wonderful for you in the long term.xx

It sounds as though you had a shit childhood altogether, OP. It all sounds horrendous, and the incident with the uncle just the final straw! Idk what you can do about it at this stage, and you're right, sometimes delving into it can make things worse. Maybe we might have a professional on here who can be more helpful. My sympathies anyway OP