How can I tell who owns the fence on each side?

[hamandpease]

Hi everyone

I understand that the property which owns a fence (rather than responsibility if a border) is whoever has bought that fence. Or whoever now owns the property where a previous owner has bought the fence.

The fence I'm wondering about has been up a long time before we owned the house though (and I suspect before our neighbours did too).

I'd like to try and avoid asking the neighbours and they're going to be resistant to me changing it (or putting up another next it if it turns out we don't own) and are generally rather difficult people.

(So as not to drip feed they've lived here for years and years during which time our house was owned by a BTL landlord and it seems they've been used to bossing previous occupants around re the garden. Finding one of them in my garden moving stuff around and chopping stuff down recently has seriously annoyed me, things are falsely cordial from my side and I'm trying to keep it that way despite the crazy over stepping the mark behaviour.....)

Thanks

You'll need to look at your house deeds, any boundary which is yours will be marked with a 'T'. If it's your boundary you can happily replace the fence, if it's not your boundary you'll need to get neighbours permission to change it. If they don't agree, you can always erect your own fence on your side of the boundary, and leave theirs as it is.
There's lots of bunkum around about "the good side" of fences indicating ownership, but that's nonsense.

House deeds show who is responsible for maintaining a boundary.

My house deeds don't specify ownership so we just share costs if something needs done to either fence

As a rule of thumb, if you stand outside the house the fence on the right hand side belongs to you.

*stand out side the house and look at it

It varies.... you have to look at your deeds

At our last house (fairly new build) everyone owned fence to left. Where we are now they are all joint ownership.

That’s a myth, I think, Redtide. I always believed it was the left side - as it is with our house - but that’s not true either.

Following

You can get copies of title deeds and plans for aboyt £3 each from
www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

You don't have to have anything to do with the property to download the info .

Sometimes the plans will indicate who is responsible for which boundary .

Deeds are the place to start, and any enquiries from the property purchase. There is no general left/right ownership rule. Even if someone is responsible for the boundary , any hedge or fence could lie within the ndn land and be their responsibility.

As people have said have a look at the official title plan for any inward facing “T” marks. Old transfers (for example where your property was transferred from a larger piece of land) might also show “T” marks.

In the absence of T marks check the sellers property information form (TA6) question 1.1 which should have been provided when you bought the property. Note this only shows the sellers understanding and isn’t conclusive like T marks on a plan.

Example form www.lawsociety.org.uk/support-services/documents/ta6-form-specimen/

If none of the above is conclusive, it’s assumed all boundaries are shared. There is no rule of thumb.

Hope that helps.

The T marks merely show who was responsible for the original fence as a condition of the sale, they do not show who has to maintain a fence. Nobody owns a boundary, it is not something you can own. You are not obliged to have any fence on a property unless you fall under the livestock act or you are the first purchaser and it is a condition of the purchase. Whoever paid for the fence owns it, full stop!

Brahumbug

The T mark shows who is responsible for maintaining the boundary.

A T mark will be referenced in the transfer (otherwise why have it?!) and a positive covenant within the body of the transfer will place an obligation on whichever party to maintain it going forward. People don’t just put T marks on for decorative purposes.

Thank you everyone that's really helpful

Would like to avoid a fight as far as possible but really need to persuade them to not wander into our garden to move stuff around when they fancy it!

@RedTideBlues

I believe it to be the boundary fence on your left and at the bottom of your garden. The right hand fence is your neighbours.

It is on my property anyway.

I believe it to be the boundary fence on your left and at the bottom of your garden. The right hand fence is your neighbours

Not always true. Certainly not in our case

My mum always used to say that the fence that belonged to you would have the fence posts on your side.

Also doesn't work here as neither of the fences have the posts on my side. I have 2 'good' sides

ALongHardWinter That's not true either. We are currently replacing some of our fence posts as they have rotted a soil level. All the fence posts are in our neighbours gardens (to the right and the rear). Luckily we know the neighbours who live behind so have been able to access their garden to carry out the work (as well as accessing next door's garden)

Following with interest...because we're in the same scenario, except on our paperwork that the sellers filled out, it says that we are responsible for the right hand side, bit the left hand side neighbours say we are responsible for the left (which is a right state and half falling down). Our deeds don't stipulate whose actually responsible so I understand that to mean we share responsibility and any cost to replace it. Can't catch my right hand side neighbour to see what he thinks, but I can't see him maintaining our right side (his left) because his garden is only half the length of ours and then it's an alleyway after that, so makes sense if that is 'our side' because it goes the whole length of our garden iyswim.

Absolutely mind blowing. Who knew owning a house was so confusing 🤷‍♀️

We are responsible for all three sides of our fences, most people try to tell us that has to be wrong, but our deeds confirm it

The T mark shows who is responsible for maintaining the boundary.

A T mark will be referenced in the transfer (otherwise why have it?!) and a positive covenant within the body of the transfer will place an obligation on whichever party to maintain it going forward. People don’t just put T marks on for decorative purposes.
No. You are wrong, as confirmed by my chartered surveyor husband

Positive covenants which place a financial burden on subsequent buyers are unenforceable. Nobody has to have a fence if they don't want one. The T marks as i stated, merely refer to the initial aet up. Nobody can own a boundary, it is an imaginary line separating 2 properties.

You don’t “own it” you have a responsibility to maintain it. I won’t justify my opinion by my job title for fear of outing myself. But suffice to say I’m also adequately qualified and do this for a living.

Positive covenants are enforceable provided you have an indemnity in each subsequent transfer binding successors and that chain of indemnity remains unbroken.

This explains the enforceability of positive covenants and how to ensure they “run with the land.”
www.land-registry-documents.co.uk/news-blog/covenantswhat-you-need-to-know-about/

We had a dispute with my grans neignours over who owned the fence, there was nothing on the deeds. The neighnours on the other side told us that the fence, looking out into the back garden, on the left was the home owners responsibility on that particular road. My house and my DH house also has nothing marked on the deeds but the above rule also applied to both our houses.
If its not on your deeds, and many are not, you can ask other neighbours on your road too

^My house and my DH house also has nothing marked on the deeds but the above rule also applied to both our houses.
If its not on your deeds, and many are not, you can ask other neighbours on your road too^

I really don't think that because other properties in the road do something it becomes a rule .