Son in huge trouble

[WorriedandScaredMum]

This could be outing so Daily Mail, Mirror,Express fuck right off. You don't have permission to use this.

Basically in November 2017, I was in the way to work when my husband called (7am) and said the police were there to talk to my son. I raced back but missed most of the interview. My son was 17 then. My husband (not his dad) was there though. Apparently ds was in a group chat in WhatsApp and one of them sent through some files which were Lollyporn. Manga drawings of young girls. My son said he looked at one and didn't like it so he just ignored them.

But he had had his phone set up so they saved to his google drive automatically and he didn't realise they were there. The police had done a big operation and done dawn raids on all this group. He now has no contact with any of them. They we're all at school and college previously.

My husband gave the police his devices before I got there, voluntarily. They said they would be examined and we'd hear back from them. They said they were child protection officers and that they were there to protect my son.

My son has asd/odd as well and has lots of behavioural issues.

Anyway roll on to this year. My son is now nearly 19 and they contacted me to ask him in for a voluntary interview. I arranged a solicitor but can't be his appropriate adult due to my job and conflict of interest. So since January they've been back and forth trying to arrange an interview date when social services can arrange an appropriate adult at the same time as my son can make it, due to work etc.

Just to add to his pressure, his dad has just died very suddenly and we've literary just had his funeral. The solicitor had got back in touch with another interview date for May.

My son is not coping but refuses to go to the gp to arrange counselling for stress and I can see him just going under. I'm trying to be as supportive as possible but I can't make him go to the doctor and we can't afford private counselling at all.

I'm so bloody worried that they'll arrest him there and then and put him in custody. He will just crumble if this happens. He was so upset with his dad dying and this has been going on for so long now. I don't know what to do. I'm not dealing with the solicitor as he's over 18 now so I have no idea what's going on. He just shuts down completely.

Sorry this is so long and rambling. It's late and I'm tired and worried. I don't know what to do.

Distateful surely you honestly have no idea. No idea at all. It can be sickening and horrifying. Pray you never come across it.

If it was more serious they wouldn't have been trying to interview him for 4 months.
They would have made sure they did.

Sounds like box ticking about info gathering about someone else he's no longer in contact with.

Manga and Anime ‘Lolicon’ cartoons can apparently be very extreme and can be illegal here.

And part of the issue is that he didn’t receive and delete, he ‘made images’ I.e saved it to Google Drive (yes, saving is considered making an image).

However as a vulnerable person (ASD) it could also be looked at as a safeguarding issue because someone sent them to him. How old was the person who sent them?

Anyway, obviously you need a lawyer .

Good luck, OP.

I would be taking this very seriously OP. I know someone who has ASD and other MH problems which have meant he's never been able to live independently. He was caught up in Operation Ore and ended up in prison, albeit for a relatively short sentence. The evidence was, I'm told, flimsy at best.

Get a good solicitor.

Make sure he is accompanied by a solicitor who understands ASD.

Appropriate Adults have very limited training and remit and are as much use as a chocolate teapot in most cases

.

I could be wrong but I thought the police had to offer/provide a solicitor if they are questioning someone, even if it's voluntary.
I wouldn't allow any questioning without a solicitor present.

Child abuse or facilitating child abuse is horrendous and an unfathomable crime. OP, I understand you need to support your son but if at all he is guilty, I hope you'll do the right thing.

I still don't understand why your first reaction and thought is that he is in serious trouble if this is simply about the case two years when he was being regarded as a person in need of protection. What has changed that would lead you now to believe he might be regarded as otherwise.

You know him and the situation better than any of us here. If you gut tells you he is in serious trouble, then you must think there is something for him to be in trouble for. If that's the case, then I'm afraid I cannot feel any goodwill or sympathy towards him.

... But for you, you have my sympathies.

Questioning at a police station means full legal aid will be provided, so you will have no trouble finding a solicitor to take the case. Legal aid cases are usually the bread and butter of solicitors.

I have no idea what the role of an appropriate adult is, though I think it's to ensure the person has all their rights upheld.
Your ds should have a solicitor and the appropriate adult present throughout the interview.
Do you think your DS would manage to get through a 'no comment' interview? I.e. no matter what they say, he has to say 'no comment'.

Is it not more likely they are wanting to interview him as they are investigating a wider problem/someone else, ie the person that sent the images - perhaps trying to trace where they were originally sent from?
Do you suspect something else has happened within the last 2 years?
If nothing has changed since last time I think it will be fine.

Threads in chat are no longer deleted after 90 days, OP, just so you are aware.

Child abuse or facilitating child abuse is horrendous and an unfathomable crime.

Absolutely. But however sick these cartoons are, they presumably didn't involve abuse of a real child in their making. I can see why the OP's son might not have known they were illegal (did everyone here know that? I didn't, not having needed to look it up).

Tailsofamanypaw, put it this way; why would these images in the form of cartoons not be illegal or why would anyone think it is okay and acceptable to make or distribute these "cartoons"? What do they think they are encouraging, inciting, or satisfying other than sick and criminal activities? Do you suppose it is harmless fun? Should society view the making and distributing these "cartoons" as anything other than criminal?

If he's 19 why are the police going via you? He is an adult no?

There’s an appetite for cartoon versions of other illegal acts (shooting / killing games for instance) and those cartoons are not illegal. It’s not obvious that the drawings as well as the acts should be illegal in this case.

I certainly would not compare drawings or cartoons of children being abused with drawings of shooting or killing. The point here is not about comparing illegal acts concerning real people and deducing some equivalence where cartoon versions are concerned.

No, we’ll, I’m obviously both missing your point and distracting from the thread, so I’ll go away and think about it. I’m not sure that the brain that comes up with savage drawings of murder or torture is any better than one that invents sick images of sexual abuse.

I was in court a couple of weeks ago to see a teenager sentenced for possession of (making) indecent manga cartoons. It is absolutely illegal.

He was given a lengthy community order.

OP if your son’s story stacks up then he probably won’t be prosecuted. Please be aware though that most accused people do not tell anyone the truth at the outset

Tailofthemanypaws, the logic you're trying to apply here in terms of your comparison of crimes does not apply here. However, following your train of thought consider this: there are circumstances when a murder is seen before the law as justified (eg, self-defence, sustained emotional abuse, etc). There are no circumstances in which sexually abusing a child can be justified. So this attempt to draw equivalence between crimes or illegal acts simply on account is flawed. What is even more flawed is to them transpose that idea of equivalence when considering crimes in different context eg, images of criminal activities.

Tailofthemanypaws, because its one small step away from the real thing. It is all illegal to close any loopholes or supposed grey areas and rightly so.

We don’t know what is going on here.

Originally the OP was told it was a safeguarding issue, and so it could be if someone older sent a vulnerable U18 with SEN (ASD) obscene material, whether or not it is legal per se.

There is a group of people very active on Twitter who define themselves as MAP or NOMAP, meaning ‘minor attracted person’ or ‘no offence minor attracted’. They are open about their predilection but claim they manage it by committing no illegalities. They almost all use a Manga avatar. It’s horrendous. There is no way I would have allowed my Dc to attend Manga conventions or take part in the prolific online Manga associated chat had I known that.

It could very well be that the police are investigating something wider.

Thanks, Dont and Weights. Hotpot, I too had Manga-fan kids at one point. I hope they've come through it unscathed but I'm now somewhat concerned about what they might have seen. I won't sidetrack the thread further.