'You get more right wing as you get older' - discuss

[Echobelly]

My mum has always said to me ‘Ah, you’ll get more right wing as you get older, everyone does’, but I really think this isn’t the case anymore.

Caveat first: I am aware I am writing from a white middle-class standpoint here, though I think we are the group of whom ‘you’ll get more right wing as you get older’ is most often said.

I think there’s been a fundamental change since my parents’ generation (they are approaching 70 now) – they grew up believing fairly comfortably that their children would do as well or better than they had, but their children have no such assurances about their own offspring. We have done pretty well by most people’s standards, but we still bought our family homes much later than our parents did, and we can’t afford the same lifestyles as they did on equivalent money (eg my parents could go to the opera and theatre often, buy new cars, send a child to private school) due to housing and childcare costs, and then when it comes to our kids, at this rate they will struggle to do as well as we have unless something changes fundamentally.

The ‘getting more right wing’ thing comes from the idea is that as you get older you are more invested (literally) in the system with wealth and property, and perhaps we are, but we know that the system as is will be unlikely to work for our kids. So we’re not getting more right wing because we recognise something has to change, although we are on the horns of a dilemma as we have to admit we ourselves have done OK from The System

Still a leftie. I walk past homeless people every day, you don’t need the statistics to tell you there are more rough sleepers than a decade ago. Horror stories about Universal Credit and food bank use shooting up where it is introduced. The NHS under-funded and almost at breaking point, and a bunch of incredibly rich MPs pushing the country towards the cliff edge of a no deal Brexit.
I also think we need political reform desperately. First Past the Post has helped create a horrendous mess. Votes in safe seats don’t count at all, and others are forced into tactical voting for the less bad option which is then claimed as a mandate for everything in the manifesto.

Oh and agree about ministers introducing massive costly reorganisations to ‘make their mark’ though I notice that less nowadays as I’m too busy being appalled by other things.

I'm a lot more left wing due to my life experience being broader.

I'm pretty disillusioned with the political system though. I want to vote for a huge affordable house building programme (energy efficient houses) and a 3 or 4 day working week. I want big companies to pay fair tax.

Nobody is standing for those policies 😕

I don’t consider myself right wing and hold the same values as when I was younger. However it appears that the goalposts have changed and being Gender Critical now gets you labeled as right wing. The fact that I am socially conservative and believe in marriage and stable family life (that never was right or left wing when I was younger) seems more and more to be considered “right wing” or “conservative” small “c”. I have heard left wing activists boast about how they went to “destroy heteronormativity”. Well that’s most people, so being supportive of healthy heterosexual marriages apparently is reactionary.

My parents and extended family were all Labour voters and Labour councillors but I feel abandoned and unwanted by the Labour Party these days. They don’t seem to give a shit about women frankly. So no idea who I will vote for next General Election.

My children have done much better than me both in terms of wealth, housing and careers. I've not become more right wing. Neither have I become (god forbid) more left wing. Still somewhere in the middle where I've always been.

I've always been on the right. I'm young though. (20s). In the minority for my age group it seems

More right wing due to the fact than without a healthy business sector the public sector won't work- I remember the 1970s it was horrific and scary. The current labour movement (momentum) would take us into an authoritarian public system.

I feel like I’m becoming less tribal as I get older. I don’t necessarily believe things are right just because my ‘side’ believes it to be so.

“destroy heteronormativity”. Well that’s most people, so being supportive of healthy heterosexual marriages apparently is reactionary.

I think you are misunderstanding. Most LGBT campaigners I have had dealings with have nothing against heterosexual couples or heterosexuality at all. "Heteronormativity" the assumption/presumption that heterosexuality is some sort of ideal norm, somehow superior, and something to be aspired to - and not just one of a wide range of sexual/social types. It's that presumption that is needing done away with. There should be nothing more special about a heterosexual marriage - other than for the two lucky loved-up individuals - than that of a homosexual marriage.

Men love women, women love women, men love men. Some men and women love both All the same thing. Love is love. All marriages (happy ones at least) should be supported and celebrated. That's what 'destroying heteronormativity' means. Nothing more.

Having said that you'll get the odd extremist biscuit who thinks heterosexuality is evil - and that's who the Daily Wail will report and make out their opinion is widespread. But that's like saying all Christians are Bible thumping fundamentalist conmen because some American crook gyps the gullible by shouting Bible verses at them through the TV.

if you're not a socialist at 20 you have no heart, if you're still a socialist at 40 you have no brain

Yeah, bollocks to that. I'm as left as I ever was and now I have kids and a smidgeon of disposable income I'm actively seeking to live a much greener lifestyle.

It depends what you mean by 'right wing'.

I think all children are very communist because we bang on about the virtues of sharing and playing nice ALL THE TIME...and they therefore think these things are important.

I think you have a massive shift in how you view the world when you have children. I used to give a lot more to charity etc. when I didn't have a kid. Now I feel like my money isn't mine to dispose of as I want anymore..I feel I owe it to my kid to pass it on...but it isn't really that because if I asked HER what to do with it, she would say give it away...because she is a child and hence communist!

I think the other thing that fades over time is your awareness of privilege. The older you get the more you buy into your own bullshit and the less you remember the advantages of your childhood.

I've definitely started to feel like I deserve my success more than I used to. You feel more responsible for your success and more likely to feel those who aren't 'successful' probably deserve that too. That is a very tory part like frame of mind...and its a constant battle in my head to fend it off and check my privilege!

Opposite for me.

I can't imagine being less left leaning as I get older. I see voting Tory as a deep character flaw and really don't see myself going that way

My parents definitely became more right wing as they got older. To an extent, I understand this. Tory policies such as triple-locked pensions and large increases in the inheritance tax threshold are specifically designed to appeal to older people who own assets.

They also became more culturally right wing and angry about immigration and ‘political correctness’. They voted Leave and, given the chance, would have voted for Trump. For this, I blame the toxic lies of the Daily Mail.

I’m fairly left wing, I always have been and really can’t see this changing. I can’t imagine myself not wanting a strong and fair welfare state, more social housing, more equality and better state education.

Nope, definitely got more and more left wing here now I'm older!
Think it's more compassion towards other people and their circumstances, seeing outside of my "box" and others experiences (like on here for example)

When i was younger I was tribally Left and viewed the Right with disdain. But having seen excesses both on the Left and the Right, I've realised that Left vs Right is far too simplistic. It's more informative to think of more than one axis. This is a very interesting test to take:

www.politicalcompass.org/analysis

Overall I suppose I'm more Right wing than I was. One significant reason for this is a sense I get from many on the Left that people on the Right are morally inferior, or even evil. That to me has been incredibly off-putting.

The Sandman this was all some time ago when I was in my 20s in the 1990s, when people were using this language and these were individuals who I knew personally who gleefully were actively working to destroy the nuclear family. They declared themselves as "left wing". I think you misunderstand me, my brain hasn't fallen out, I am well aware of what all these terms mean and what the ideology behind them is. However identity politics to my mind has often divided people who naturally find themselves on the left and would've been allies. By losing the focus of the big picture: good quality healthcare, education and housing for all - the need for job training to build a future healthy economy etc. and instead figure pointing and feeling righteous over identity politics, large swaths of people are being alienated from parties such as Labour which used to be their home. Very shortsighted and frankly stupid in my opinion.

Sorry Ida, your use of the present tense made me think this was a current problem. You are talking about 20+ years ago. I'm sure I'd be embarrassed as hell by some of the ideas I espoused when I was a student back in the 80s.

But I agree with you, the left has always had a problem getting its shit together and finding common cause. It's one of the defining traits of the left. The seemingly endless debate and constant challenging of each other ideas. Sometimes to destruction. Because the left is about debate, thought, and ideas. The right is about finding someone else to blame for the current state of affairs and trying to make time go backwards to some glory that was.

I hear you Sandman. I guess my point was you can stand in place with your views but as the world turns and changes those same views can now be classified differently. I think previous generations that built the Labour Party and wanted a society where the benefits were spread more fairly across the classes have felt confused and left behind by identity politics. Once those politics unwisely start pointing the finger at working class men in particular as oppressive patriarchs, many have abandoned the left for parties that speak to their pride and don’t expect them to be ashamed. Alienating a large voting block is very shortsighted - the Democrats (who are centerists) have the same problem. Working class men won it for Trump (although more than 50% of white women also voted for him). My American father in law is a good example. He voted twice for Obama and then voted for Trump.

It seems the left in recent decades have absorbed ideas that have come from a middle-class academia (the Trans issue is a classic illustration) while ignoring the much larger issue of rising income disparity and bigger economic issues generally. Maybe the professionalization of the political class is also to blame, they are out of touch with those they are meant to represent.

I am not romantic about the working class, as I mentioned, although most of my family voted Labour there were also staunch Tories in my extended family who like to consider themselves middle class even though their material circumstances were the same.

I think I am not unusual in feeling alienated by the Labour Party and politically homeless. Our FPTP system encourages these big umbrella parties that are expected to absorb a wide range of views, which is how the Tories in particular are being torn apart. I could never vote Tory but I do agree with a previous poster that being adamant about the correctness of our faction leads to a lack of compromise and intelligent solutions. We are now lumbered with an incompetent parliament who can loudly proclaim what they don’t want while rejecting all solutions and alternatives.

In the meantime we could never run our families or raise our children like that!

I actually have become more left wing as ive become older.

With the experience of my life (with hidden disabilities) & of working in a hospital it has definitely made me more of a socialist.

I am a strong believer in healthcare free at the point of use, in equal rights for all and especially in workers' rights.
I would also describe myself as an anti-Fascist & a feminist.
I don't go around pushing my opinions on others though as many people I know including colleagues are right wing & I want to be able to get on with them without arguments.
My family are all more right wing than me but they are understanding of my views.

I'm 42 now so I doubt I'll change much now...