Is borrowing and carrying really not taught any more (in maths)?

[BloodyNumberLines]

DD is in Primary 2 in Scotland. She's just turning 7.

She likes numbers/maths. They're doing early multiplication (2s, 5s and 10s) and I think she has a good idea of place value, as she can tell you tens and ones etc. I'm obviously not an expert.

When they are adding and taking away, they have to use a 'strategy' like a number line or tens frames or using cubes, but there has been no mention of doing the sums that we used to do at school. I'm sorry, I don't know the name of them, when there's a number above and a number below and two lines for the answer.

I asked the teacher at parents' night and she said they don't teach it any more. It just seems loads easier than drawing a number line every time.

Do you mean column addition/ subtraction?

It's all done differently now.... do you know anyone at school who could explain how it's now taught?
Or an older kid who would explain it?

It was certainly taught to my children and they went through the Scottish primary system (are in S1 and S4 now)

Also the terminology has changed, you will confuse your dd if you try to help her using the words we were taught

It is done but usually in year 4.
We teach it as.expandes column addition

So 34 +23
30+20 =50
4+3 =7
50+7=57

Sorry about the layout, should be in tens and units columns but on phone

Maybe she just means it's not taught that way at this age

my kids do it that way as well - NW England yr 1& 4

Do you mean like this?

Yes- column addition, just googled it!

DD is adding and subtracting up to 100, and the way she is being taught, she jumps backwards or forwards on the numbers in tens and units. Seems a bit of a palaver to me, but I don't want to contradict the school or confuse her.

Aargh. * jumps backwards or forwards on the number line in tens and units.

Once they work with bigger numbers they will probably move to another method

You want a copy of this book. It's really useful for explaining the difference between the way we were taught Maths and the way our children are being taught Maths.

Thank you- need to run out with the dog but that looks really interesting.

They'll use column as they get older.
Borrowing is known as exchanging now....as in you exchange a 'ten' for ten units. Only they're not called units, they're called 'ones'.

I came to primary teaching late, and couldn't get my head round it at first, but it actually does make sense once you get used to it.

My year 2 daughter was doing the very beginning stages of formal column methods as another poster described earlier this year. Am on phone at the moment so hard to explain but yes it's taught - not necessarily in the same terminology we used when we were at school though.

www.mathsteacher.com.au/year7/ch01_whole/03_sub/sub.htm

I was taught the equals addition method shown here. My children are being taught the decomposition method (dh was taught this way too in England)

Where about in Scotland are you? I’m teaching using the SEAL approach. The children are taught to mental add/ subtract using a range of different methods. She will be taught column methods but not for a while yet. Written work in the traditional sense isn’t pushed the way it was even 10 years ago.

My daughter (age 10) has been taught 4 different versions including the column method. That was the final one to be taught. I said to the teacher "Thank goodness! I will finally know what her maths is about". She said the column method is generally the one most children 'get' and end up using!
Number lines are such a blimmin faff! I can't even remember the other two. I remember lots of dots in circles!
It can be interesting sometimes teach alternative ways though. I was taught an Elizabethan method for long multiplication as a novelty but I prefer that method and still use it.

Ive been helping.in a y5 class recently and they definitely do column addition and subtraction.

We called it borrowing and carrying when I was at school.
I'm not sure what DS calls it but he was taught it at a Scottish primary school probably around P4 or P5.

Yes, they do it in KS2 at our school (English school).

I teach in Scotland. Sounds like she is learning about Number Talks.
They learn different strategies to solve addition, subtraction and later multiplication and division problems. Then they share and talk about their strategy.

My class love it, we do one each day - about 15 minutes. I find their knowledge of numbers is so much better, that when we do column addition - they understand why we are doing it and not just what to do. I wish they had done Number Talks when my daughter was in primary school. The children's knowledge of numbers is so much better.

They eventually do borrowing and carrying in later secondary, but learn by adding tens and units first to ensure they have place value down pat.

I’m a TA and 4 dc and in secondary that do it as you remember (they may put carrying in a different place).

It’s not borrowing because you don’t give it back! It’s exchanging.

Column addition/subtraction (also called chimney sums or upstairs downstairs sums) still taught but later on more emphasis on mental strategies first.

Children prefer the written method IME

They do teach column methods, but later in primary.
The number lines are actually really good. They help the children understand what is happening.
Number lines help massively when dealing with negative numbers too. I encourage my y9 DD2 to draw a number line if in doubt when dealing with them. DD1 used them occasionally all the way to GCSE.
Chunking when starting long division later is ace, as is the grid method for long multiplication.

The theory is that if you jump too quickly to formal methods then the children are just applying by rote without understanding, which can then lead to issues later down the line. How often do you see adults saying they are hopeless at maths? That is often because they got lost at some point.