Has anyone got a career in science while still being a bit weak at maths?

[cottonwoolbrain]

DD is desperate to be a biochemist. She came up with the idea entirely independently when she was 10 and at 13 in year 8 still wants to do it. However although she's doing well in the 3 sciences (at the moment the school think she could get good grades in GCSE if she were to do them this year though we are going to wait) she struggles a little with maths.

She CAN do it but she had a really bad maths teacher last year who she simply could not get on with and its totally knocked her confidence. Thankfully said teacher left last year and she's got a new one but as a result of her poor test results in year 7 has been knocked down a group. She now believes there is no way she can go ahead with her ambition because of maths.

I don't want to tell her she can if she can't so looking for successful scientists who are weaker at maths. Can she get into science courses without maths A level for example or is it essential?

I did a chemistry degree when I hadn't done A level maths. People told me it would be ok but it wasn't good. Really struggled.

Definitely do science but really pick which discipline & look at the courses.

Or get early help with the maths.

Would it be possible to get a tutor for a while?

whatdoyouknow that makes me think I need to be quite realistic with her

"thegirliwithglassfeet* yes we could afford a tutor. I think I'll ask around for recommendations.

Its a shame because dd is a clever girl (I would say that) but she simply can not get her head round some of the maths :(

DH is a vet and only has GCSE maths. My school did a maths for scientists class for those doing science a levels without maths.

As it's almost certainly confidence would suggest a tutor to help fill in any gaps and build foundations!

She is in year 8 - she has a long time to get to grips with everything she needs to. It would be silly to write off any A level choice at this time or to expect a poor GCSE grade.

I have a PhD in a hard science and I'm shit at maths. DS is also and is undergoing a dyscalculia diagnosis and I very much suspect he gets it from me. Day to day it's not an issue as you always have a calculator, the internet and excel.

You need to check which courses would accept no maths. I know they trialled it at my uni in my year and several people had no maths A-Levels. Of course, those of us who had done maths found the first term easier, but over the course of the 4 years I'm not sure it made a lot of difference. The first term was essentially revising/learning A-Level maths to make sure every one was at the same level.

I got through it, not by getting my head round it, but by learning what I needed to do when faced with a particular question. We also had lessons specifically on how to get the most marks at GCSE. So, make sure she knows how her papers will be marked and work on exam technique.

I have a PhD in biological sciences and I’m not v good at maths. Found it really hard at school although managed to get a B in GCSEs (a long time ago though - think they’re harder now!).

Definitely get a maths tutor.

My husband is a science PhD and he’s shit at maths! No reason at all why she should t go for it.

I'm a civil engineer and whilst I have GCSE maths..it was fucking hard

In work we use desktop design calculators but during my degree I was a mess

Calculus? Cried the entire way through it

Structural mechanics nearly gave me a nervous breakdown

I only wanted to be a civil engineer because of the money and opportunities for women

In another life I'd be a prison officer 🙈

I felt weak at maths at 12, but now have a PhD in a physics related subject. I would say that the main thing about maths is just practice and practice and practice and more practice at any level. For me, I learn the current step by rote, and then magically, a year later, when I've learnt some more advanced stuff and used it (again by rote) the stuff from the previous year is suddenly intuitive and makes sense. That's happened all the way through school and now in my research. The worst possible thing she can do is to say 'I can't so maths' or let anyone tell her that. You wouldn't expect to be able to run a marathon without practising to run a mile first. For example, my A-level further maths required about 5hrs of work a day, just on maths, doing every problem in the book twice.

It's a long way away, but I really wouldn't bother looking at a science career if she's genuinely not strong enough or not prepared to put in the work to get there. I see scientists who try to bluff through with weak maths, and honestly, they're doing shit science. They might be good at lab work, but I don't trust their sample preparation if they struggle with fractions and I certainly don't trust their analysis, and they almost always get exposed. I'd also wonder who they paid to do their undergrad essays and mentally discount anyone else I met in future from that university. A science degree that doesn't require a decent level of maths isn't worth the debt.

Its reassuring to know there are a few scientists who are shit at maths

I think Claudiawinkleman is right its too early to say how she'll do at GCSE . I think part of it is that she compares herself with people in higher maths groups (there are 5 and she's in the middle one) and worries when perhaps there's little need.

I think I'll have a chat with her maths teacher and see what she thinks and then look at getting a tutor after that.

fucksakefelicia can you combine civil engineer and prison officer and look at how to design the buildings to stop the drugs getting in? Maybe something clever to stop drones going over walls.

My brother is a radiographer with a C in GCSE maths. Can't remember what my sister got at GCSE maths but she didnt do A level and she's a pharmacist.

I have to say though, I've had a ten year career break due to the DC and finding it a nightmare to find a job now. A lot of what is putting me off is that I don't feel confident going back into the field I qualified in because I've forgotten too much of the basics simply because I don't use it in day to day life. And I'm not qualified for anything else!

Well, I wouldn't say I was shit at maths but I'm not red hot either (I did do A level but found it incredibly hard). I don't use very advanced maths in my work but ratios, fractions, decimals, percentages, conversions from nano to milli etc are every day basics, they need to be fluent and confident and it does need practice. I think the problem with not doing A level is not just that you haven't done the advanced stuff but that by the time you start your degree you will have had two years with little maths practice.

Lots of biology in particular you don't need to be brilliant at maths. Chemistry and Physics is more maths-y, but I echo the posters who say she has lots of time. Also early talent in maths is not necessarily helpful because when it gets harder you haven't learnt to work at working it out. In the long run she might find that the struggle at the start has set her up very well.

I’ve got a biology degree and work in research now. Although I was good at maths and got an A* at gcse I didn’t go any further with it.

I've a friend who has a doctorate in a chemistry-focussed discipline and works as a researcher who was terrible at maths at school. She had to put in a lot of work to get where she wanted to be, but she found that it was better when she used the maths in a practical application.

Can you afford a maths tutor? It would probably really get her confidence up after a bad year.

Look at materials science & engineering. I will cheerfully admit its engineering for those who can't do / don't like maths.

There are some very mathematical areas, such as semiconductor materials and quantum theory, but options means you can mostly avoid doing all but the basics of those. (I did, and studied at a very well regarded uni)

Plus, many courses also have modules on biomaterials, which is fascinating and would compliment an interest in biochemistry I think. That means stuff like improving the materials for hip replacements, stents etc, but also looking at targeted drug delivery systems.

Plus there is a major shortage of graduates in the subject, so good job opportunities and salaries. As a wider subject area, we work in everywhere from packaging at Unilever, catalyst science at Johnson Matthey, nuclear materials at Sellafield, Aerospace materials at Rolls-Royce, biomaterials at Johnson & Johnson, oil & lubricant technology at BP, heavy forging production at Sheffield Forgemasters, R&D steel alloy development at Tata, composite development for F1 & other sports... And all of that (and more) is just what I can think of off the top of my head in the UK.

It really is a fantastic subject to start off a career and I find most people in it have come to it by doing a PhD after a chemistry or physics degree. Because I did the subject at undergraduate level, I have a better grounding and am seen as having more experience than those with a niche PhD is one area of materials.

If you can afford to, I would definitely get her a maths tutor for a while - it looks as though she isn't actually struggling/mediocre at maths but has missed some learning and had a confidence dip as a result. It shouldn't take too long to get her back up to speed, so it would be a worthwhile investment imo

It depends on what you mean by weak.
If you're talking about "only" going to get a 7 when her other subjects are 9, then she'll be absolutely fine.

If you're talking about struggling to get a 4 (low C in old money) then I would imagine that she will struggle at A-level Chemistry anyway.

Ex biochemist here (PhD and lecturer) and I didn’t do maths beyond GCSE
We used to do maths tutorials for students who needed them. If she’s bright, she’ll get by

I've an MEng and I was crap at math back in school. The penny only really dropped for me at university.

witchend its hard to say especially as she's only 13 / year 8.

I fear she's inherited any issues with maths from me (her dad's got a physics degree so doubt its his genes!) I got a C at GCSE and was so grateful as it meant I didn't have to retake. I got As and Bs for everything else but was more excited about passing maths than anything. That said I think DD is already ahead of anything I ever managed in maths

I studied a science degree subject with maths gcse only. I have a PhD in said subject, and a masters in statistics. The stats course involved applying statistical methods by hand, ie without a computer program, to really understand it. I was considered to not really 'get' maths at school. I still add up by counting on my fingers, if I have to add up quickly in my head, and without a piece of paper.
I really wouldn't worry for your daughter. If maths a level is a requirement for the biochem course, it would be stated. Any practical maths that she needs for her subject may just click, as for myself and a previous poster.

This thread is very heartening. My son has a maths tutor and has improved a lot, on course for a 6/7 this year. He’s hoping to study physics, maths and computer science at A level. I was worried about him doing A level maths but the head of department at his chosen 6th form college said he’ll be fine with a GCSE B and especially as he’s strong at algebra. Good to know though that there are many routes into science and engineering that aren’t maths centric.