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I'm so shit at grammar, I need help!

24 replies

IHopeYouStepOnALegoPiece · 12/03/2019 09:48

Especially apostrophes...where the fuck do you put them?!
So for example if I’m saying

Alices diary (as in Alices diary is full)...where do you put the apostrophe

Do you put an apostrophe?!

Can we all just pretend grammar isn’t necessary?!

How can I get better at using grammar?!

OP posts:
PutyourtoponTrevor · 12/03/2019 09:50

Alice's diary

SileneOliveira · 12/03/2019 09:50

Alice's diary.

They show that Alice owns the diary. Also used to show a letter is missing - so do not become "don't" and not "dont".

Never ever use an apostrophe to mark a plural - writing orange's, clothe's , boot's or similar is very wrong.

Seeline · 12/03/2019 09:52

It's Alice's diary.

My advice would be to get a school grammar book - either KS2 (so covering SATs) or KS3.
something like these

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

doIreallyneedto · 12/03/2019 09:56

The 2 main reasons to use an apostrophe would be to show possession or to replace one or more letters.

So Alice's book. You put the apostrophe before the s to show that the book belongs to Alice. However, the apostrophe goes after the s if there is more than one "Alice".

So the dog's food means the food belongs to the dog whereas the dogs' food means the food belongs to the dogs, so more than one dog.

The second use is to replace missing letters so isn't, wasn't etc where the ' replaces the o in not.

There are loads of good resources on the Internet. If you google English grammar lessons you should find useful information.

ChoccyBiccyTastic · 12/03/2019 10:00

Alice's diary is full.

This is a possessive apostrophe, indicating the diary belongs to Alice, so you could say, IHope's orange, Choccy's banana, etc.

If you need to use a plural possessive, for instance, if you had a group of ladies and you were talking about their oranges (bear with me), you would put the apostrophe after the 's', e.g. The ladies' oranges

You don't need one for plurals e.g. 3 oranges, 2 bananas (not 2 orange's).

The other type of apostrophe indicates missing letters, e.g. don't is a contaction of do not, and the letter o is missing.

It's and its commonly get confused. It's is a contraction of it is. Its is a pronoun like his and hers.

babysharkah · 12/03/2019 10:06

Apostrophes are possessive (owning) or contracting (replacing missing letters).

So, Alice's diary isn't very good. Alice owns the diary, and isn't is a contraction of is not.

IHopeYouStepOnALegoPiece · 12/03/2019 10:10

Thank you so much! I asked a friend earlier and she spent 20 minutes laughing at me so that you for not also making me feel like a dick!

I’ve just ordered those KS2 books. I feel like a total idiot but I’m just so shit at it. 30 years old and I’m buying bloody SAT revision books

Jesus Christ

OP posts:
LadyRochfordsSpangledGusset · 12/03/2019 10:12

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,Shootss&Leaves

This book is very informative with added humour :).

LadyRochfordsSpangledGusset · 12/03/2019 10:13

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0051UH6YM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Don't think that link worked, try this one?

KnittingSister · 12/03/2019 10:14

There is no shame in not knowing, you're doing something about it, so you can be proud of yourself, well done! Smile

mummaminnie · 12/03/2019 11:02

There is one other gotcha and that's to do with its and it's.

It's is always an abbreviation of it is. E.g. it's raining for it is raining

Its is a possessive pronoun like his, her, our

E.g. The dog is wearing its collar

ChoccyBiccyTastic · 12/03/2019 11:11

Commas are a minefield for many. I have come to notice that children's books don't use them correctly, and I'm sure this is why most people never fully learn the rules, although they're not always hard and fast.

It would take ages to type out all the rules here. Google "comma usage", which will give you a good start. Knowing when not to use them is as important as knowing when to.

Some basics:

Lists

I need apples, bananas, oranges, and grapes.

The last comma is optional, but be consistent in the same piece of work.

If the list is very long and complex, you can use a semicolon to separate concepts e.g.

I need apples, red, green, and yellow; grapes, red and white; potatoes, maris pipers, king edwards... etc.

The comma between sentences that could stand alone
I love oranges. I love apples = I love oranges, and I love apples.

Not all sentences with and or but need a comma:

I loves oranges and apples.
I love oranges but only if they're easy to peel.
I love drinking water and eating oranges.

The comma after an introductory word or phrase

Hungrily, he ate the apples.
Because he loved apples, he ate them hungrily.
He ate the apples hungrily.

Commas around additional info

"British people who eat apples are crazy."

This means that if you are British and you eat apples, you are crazy.

"British people, who eat apples, are crazy."

This means British people are crazy and they also eat apples.

"John' sister Tina loves apples"= John has more than one sister.

"John's sister, Tina, loves apples"= John has one sister.

The 'which' comma

Not need when which could be replaced with that e.g.
He likes apples that taste good.
He likes apples which taste good.

But needed here:
He likes apples, which taste good with sugar.

-Using 'However'-

He did, however, like oranges.

However sometimes needs a semicolon before it, e.g. I don't like apples; however, I will eat oranges.

To give clarity

This is the main purpose of commas and usage can be flexible.

For instance, we usually put a comma after a negative "because".

Positive because:
I went to the park because I was hot.

Negative because:
I didn't go to the park because I was hot.

This can be read 2 ways.

Did they mean:
I didn't go to the park, because I was hot.
Or
I didn't go to the park because I was hot. I went for another reason.

-Adjectives-

Comma needed:
I love ripe, juicy oranges.
I love juicy, ripe oranges.

Comma not needed when you can't swap the adjectives:
I love big red apples.
I like bouncy tennis balls.

Comma needed for clarity:
"Have you heard about the big red apple shop?"

Is this a big, red, apple-shop?
Or a big, red-apple shop?
Or a big-red-apple shop?

flourella · 12/03/2019 11:26

ChoccyBiccyTastic, may I ask about your use of commas?

Firstly, for some reason I love the Oxford comma, so I certainly would use it in your first example of a list!

If I were writing out your subsequent lists, I would use a semicolon to separate the different apples from the different grapes and potatoes, as you have; however, I would either write it "red, green, and yellow apples; red and white grapes; Maris Piper and king Edward potatoes..." or I would write "apples: red, green, and yellow; grapes: red and white...etc". I know that looks like a lot of different kinds of punctuation, but do the commas really work the way you've used them there?

I am not a teacher and haven't studied English since my GCSEs more than twenty years ago, so I don't know the answer. Even in school I was never taught rules governing grammar or punctuation.

flourella · 12/03/2019 11:29

Actually, I've read your post back and maybe it does work that way. I honestly can't tell! Most likely another example of me posting in haste and looking like an idiot.

KnittingSister · 12/03/2019 11:56

I'd go to the big red shop which sells apples, or the shop which sells big red apples, to make it easier!

1sttimeDD · 12/03/2019 11:59

We recommend this book to parents who are struggling to help their 9/10 year olds with grammar expectations:

www.amazon.co.uk/Help-Spelling-Grammar-Carol-Vorderman/dp/B00FAKT2IQ

Jsmith99 · 12/03/2019 12:01

Order a copy of Eats, Shoots & Leaves by Lynne Truss. Read it. You will then be a punctuation ninja.

Sicario · 12/03/2019 12:06

There's a nice little book called Write Right. It was originally published in the late 70s and is still in print. I've had a copy on my bookshelf for as long as I can remember. Handy for everyone, particularly in the event of an apostrophe catastrophe.

ChoccyBiccyTastic · 12/03/2019 13:56

@Flourella and @KnittingSister Tbh, I was just trying to come up with example sentences off the top of my head! Grin

They are a bit unnatural. You'd go for bullet points, parentheses, or just reareange the sentences irl. But you can do it like that if you want.

This is a better semicolon example:
The list of likely murder suspects has been narrowed down as follows: Colonel Mustard, who has military experience, is a likely suspect due to his familiarity with a revolver; Mrs Plum is, and has always been, an arsey cow, prone to apoplexy over minor disagreements, and she has a potential motive due to the Easter bonnet competition debacle; and Revd Green had opportunity as he was alone with the victim in the conservatory, but no one is brave enough to indict a clergyman.

The semicolons are used where you already have loads of commas, and you need them to separate one item from another.

ChoccyBiccyTastic · 12/03/2019 14:14

Oh, and I also tend to use the Oxford comma (not that I'm anyone special to have an opinion on it), but it's the kind of thing you either use or omit by habit, and I worry about causing accidental confusion e.g. 'My favourite colours for dogs are tan, brindle, black and white.'

You'd read that twice to see if I meant 'black, and white' or 'black-and-white'.

flourella · 12/03/2019 14:29

I think that's why I like the Oxford comma as well. It gives the most clarity.

Coming back to the list for the greengrocers! If you were to use parentheses, would the items in the list still be separated by semicolons? "Apples (red, green, and yellow); grapes (red and white); etc"? Or would you put commas between them, because the other commas are contained within the brackets?

WildFlower2019 · 12/03/2019 15:50

Use Grammarly and thank me later. The free version should be enough.? They have a phone keyboard so you can use it on your phone too x

WildFlower2019 · 12/03/2019 15:52

Obviously, it won't help with your understanding but it'll help you catch mistakes with emails, texts, letters etc

ChoccyBiccyTastic · 12/03/2019 16:57

@Flourella commas. A semicolon is too strong. It's really for separating independent clauses that are very closely related, e.g. "Many people think Brexit is being handled brilliantly; I don't."

They should be used sparingly, usually before a conjunctive adverb like 'thus' or as above for effect.

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