How do some people make it into very senior roles while being so utterly crap

[StealthPolarBear]

I need to know how it's done :o

be tall
be white
be arrogant
be a bit posh
be lacking in self-awareness
be a cock
have a cock

simples, as someone without a cock but still incompetent said recently

cannycat20 Bloody hell... that's an amazing post. I take it you've thought about this a LOT!

I think it's mostly been said above, but I do think a major part of it when someone is rubbish is (a) schmoozing and (b) moving a problem on.

Making yourself invaluable to those above you is also invaluable.

Is everyone posting on here low on the totem pole/bitter and twisted? Or is it just me?

The NHS is teeming with the buggers.

Confident men promoted by other confident men who have shit leadership skills.

Definitely confidence

What if it’s definitely not due to confidence? I feel I’ve been over promoted as I really struggle with the people management side... and also our team is so overstretched but there is no staff budget for me to fix it by employing more staff and I can’t work out any other ways of easing the work burden (making processes more efficient etc). I constantly feel stressed that I’m not doing a good enough job for my team.

I have several theories on this!

People who have the balls/sheer nerve to lie on CVs and interviews. Have experienced this at least twice, working for managers with no experience or qualifications who get by on the abilities of their team.

People who work there for a long time and gain trust from very senior management. Again, have worked in teams managed by people with absolutely no experience or knowledge of that area but who senior management trust to do what they are told rather than push to do what is right.

Having a face that fits/ being seen to "work hard" bit actually doing very little. Once had a boss who would reply to certain emails at 11pm to make it look like she was working all evening. Utterly incompetant, but management adored her.

In my current place of work it's nepotism !

Stroan I strongly suspect your first one

-Gift of the gab
-Very adept at covering up their crapness and putting on an act
-Creep up to those they need to
-Walk over those they don't and would apply throw their own grandmother under a bus to save their arse and crapness

Have seen plenty of women do this,nothing to do with having a penis. Both genders have their culprits.

I’ve had plenty of really good senior managers and some shit ones. Mostly good ones. So I don’t believe that shit always floats.

I did find more shit in the private sector than public. Although local government was stuffed full of crap managers. Mainly because they couldn’t recruit due to funding cuts so the good people left and they only had rubbish staff to pick.

Moving companies before the full extent of your incompetence is recognized helps as well.
I worked for someone about 15 years ago who was utterly incompetent, someone with a science PhD who didn't understand some of the most basic concepts that our work was based on. I remember one start up meeting for a grant where I wanted to find a whole in the ground to hide in because it was so embarrassing. I could tell by the look on the faces of our grant partners that they were wondering what they have gotten themselves into.
He was actually let go by the board but since then he has done very well for himself by moving between companies and various government science funding bodies into ever higher positions but he hasn't been anywhere for more than 2 years maximum. I think he moves on at the first signs of people realizing how crap he is.

A previous poster said it but in the middle of a (great) post...

Being non threatening to their boss and subservient.

I know someone who completely fakes it. Implies that she has done this and that (very impressive boasts) but actually hardly involved. The way she talks you would think she was a Director. I don’t know whether she believes her own tripe? She does the same with her children’s achievements, embelishes the truth hugely. A lot of people know and smile and shake their heads. If she gets away with it and has recently gained another promotion! There have been allegations of bullying previously when people challenge the bull.

Agree with alot of this. Gift of the gab I would say is a main one. Diverting someone's attention away from your shit work.
Had this worked in a team of 3. The "finance manager" talked a good talk would be defensive and so people would not dig into his work. However I quickly realised in 3 months he knew nothing about basic accounting. No one else in the company did until I arrived. When confronted he laughed in my face and tried to make me look stupid. Didn't work and they fired him. I have no idea how he got that role with a large salary

Arse licking or sleeping with the right people in my experience.

When you find one of these working for you they need to be passed on asap. If the only way is up, so be it. Hope, above, has described it perfectly.

hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-dont-apply-for-jobs-unless-theyre-100-qualified

Many reasons, but one is that research shows that men will go for promotion when they can do 40% of the job description but for women it’s more like 90%. I have three people in my team who want to get promoted to the next stage. Two women, one man. In many ways, the women are better than the man. The women are filled with self doubt, it feels too hard ( and let’s be honest that’s often true - women bear the brunt of childcare, home admin etc on top of work). The man is chomping at the bit for it and thinks he’s amazing. Men will often put themselves forward and get the promotion.

My boss is like this.

He is a terrible manager. He's a nice person, but crap at managing people.

We have complained to our union as a group numerous times but apparently as senior management have no issue with him (he toes the line) we have to put up with it.

He does no work, we all carry him, and from talking to former workmates of his from years ago, it's always been the way.

I was recently off with stress. He asked when I came back what I had to be stressed about, it's not like I was a manager like him!!

Depends on the person promoting them too. If they are not 100% confident then do they promote someone they know won't challenge them or risk externally recruiting someone amazing who might expose every flaw in the current leadership?

Known how to work the interview system. Known what they will ask and how to respond to get the top marks - even if they don’t understand what they are saying!

I do think some people are recruited because they ‘look right’. Mild mannered, gey haired man with an accountancy qualification - ah yes, financial director.

I think there might be one other route not mentioned, which is to work in a fairly unattractive sector then move across. Waste, sewerage or prisons come to mind.

I don't think it's necessarily a man thing. The government has been and is teeming with bafflingly incompetent people of both sexes. Yes: Grayling, Johnson, but what about the NI secretary? They all look at the person at the top and think "I could do that". The culture of arrogance and entitlement starts at the top and trickles down. The opposition is not much better.

There are plenty of competent and hard-working people out there but they are too busy working their arses off and too polite to call out their useless colleagues.

Gordon Brittas.

*injects humour in amongst the hateful bashing of men posts.

I don't think we should use politicians as examples of this, just other walks of life. The English Language probably does not have words to describe how bad Chris Grayling is.

Reasons I think include:
Luck
The Peter Principle
Being one person to bosses, others to those they manage
Technical ability or knowledge being placed higher than people management skills
Being willing or frightened into work being the be all and end all
Nepotism
Getting a senior manager out of a hole and gratitude

Probably loads of others.