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Original poster

Are women held to higher standards in the workplace?

27 replies

Lovethighland · 25/02/2019 22:35

Name changed.

Do you think its true women are held to higher standards? It seems common in places I've worked for men to be referred to as useless or incompetent but they still keep their jobs and progress. It seems like this is less true for women. It doesn't seem to matter if their manager is male or female - excuses for not disciplining them seem to be "he's a nice guy" or "he's someone's son/father" or "he's got young kids". I can't think of a time I've ever heard of these excuses being made for women. Is it in my head? Is it just the places ive worked?

OP posts:
trumpdump · 25/02/2019 22:39

You're 100% right.

But it's not just work, it's all areas of life.

I used to work in retail. It was about 80% female, 20% male. The males were seen as much more capable, much quicker to be promoted, etc.

Howzaboutye · 25/02/2019 22:48

Absolutely definitely.
Any time I hear about a bloke I know being promoted, I just think - where's the women I know being promoted. But they just aren't.

Tigger03 · 25/02/2019 22:59

Completely agree. Men are allowed to get away with low level incompetence. For example, a number of men pretend to not know how to change the coffee machine, printer paper, learn new billing systems etc. Anything that is seen as ‘admin’ or ‘it’ they just do not learn how to do it, relying on women at the same pay grade to pick up the slack.

Original poster
Lovethighland · 25/02/2019 23:15

Anything that is seen as ‘admin’ or ‘it’ they just do not learn how to do it, relying on women at the same pay grade to pick up the slack.

This. Or in my experience, women on a lower pay grade.

It makes me so angry and so disillusioned. What makes it worse is when its women who are facilitating it.

OP posts:
GunpowderGelatine · 26/02/2019 00:16

Completely agree.

I was once in a job where the office was based next to the reception desk and, on the reception being short staffed, we were asked by senior managers to cover hours and lunches on the reception. Greeting people, etc usual reception duties. I challenged why men were never asked to be the ones to cover reception and why in some cases senior women were picked when there were junior men. This reflected badly on me though Angry and YY to reluctance to do basic admin tasks, it seems men are never at the low levels, they start medium and end up quickly at the top, and as a result never learned how to create a calendar invite or a PowerPoint presentation

namechanger0064 · 26/02/2019 00:21

Absolutely agree. I've been thinking about this recently and I've experience genuinely useless men in extremely senior positions last for years and then get decent gardening leave when their incompetence can't be tolerated any longer.

EBearhug · 26/02/2019 00:25

Apparently our HR are currently puzzling over why they have pretty much equal numbers* of men and women join the company, but women are far more likely to leave. I think one aspect is the fact that you don't have to be that great to get promoted as a man, but I would have to walk on water (as I was actually told a few years ago when I asked what would be required to get a promotion, as I looked at the men who are on a higher level, but are mostly not as good as I am.) Obviously I am the emotional one, despite there being another man in the team who stood up in a meeting and used the f-word, which I have only ever dreamed of doing. I don't get credit for the amazing amount of restraint I have to employ every day not to swear at some of them, either...

  • I bet it's not equal if you break it down by department, says the only woman in her techy department.
CatInTheSplat · 26/02/2019 07:02

Absolutely. Have recently been the "reserve choice, honestly a very close second - we'd have willingly offered it to you if our chosen candidate hadn't accepted" in three protracted, involved and multi-stage job interviews. At the first, there were two men and four women, at the second, one man and two women, at the third, one man and six women. From looking at their websites afterwards, it was apparent that each one picked a man.

Original poster
Lovethighland · 26/02/2019 08:04

I'm not sure if I feel better that it's not just me.

I was once told a man was going to be promoted because he had the right team (ie several women) behind him meaning hed be great in the job. The same women were already doing his current job for him. I left.

OP posts:
Teateaandmoretea · 26/02/2019 08:19

Anything that is seen as ‘admin’ or ‘it’ they just do not learn how to do it, relying on women at the same pay grade to pick up the slack.

Women do this too I really do struggle with systems. We have more women than men at work so maybe that makes it a slightly different environment. Its also hard to learn systems that you use once a year and then when you next need to they have changed. Some people seem to have the gift of working out how they work.

I don't know though OP, maybe. We have a bloke who gets away with more re childcare etc than any woman would.

Teateaandmoretea · 26/02/2019 08:20

I was once told a man was going to be promoted because he had the right team (ie several women) behind him meaning hed be great in the job. The same women were already doing his current job for him. I left.

Although effective delegation is surely good management...?

Original poster
Lovethighland · 26/02/2019 08:23

Although effective delegation is surely good management...?

Absolutely - but other people figuring out what needs done and doing it for you while you do very little isn't delegation. Bearing in mind the women doing his job for him were on the same level in different departments...

OP posts:
havingtochangeusernameagain · 26/02/2019 08:26

Completely agree OP. There was a thread on the employment board about an "aggressive" female worker. I did wonder whether she was actually aggressive, or just dared to be a woman in possession of an opinion.

JockTamsonsBairns · 26/02/2019 08:34

I agree op. When I have had to take time off or leave early for child related stuff, this has been problematic - a general assumption that I lack commitment. Compare this to DH who is roundly celebrated for being such a right-on family man. Our eldest is now 20, and this has been the case across numerous respective workplaces.

Medicaltextbook · 26/02/2019 08:34

I happen to have worked in places where this has not been the case. It just seemed anyone was kept on even if they were not particularly competent.

Not so sure about promotion as I was rather junior, but I suspect sexism simply comparing the number of man and women at junior then senior roles. Some of that is explained by mothers genuinely choosing to take time off to raise children after maternity, but much of it due to poor policies and childcare (childcare wasn’t directly an employer issue, but definitely had an impact).

ineedaknittedhat · 26/02/2019 09:46

Absolutely. I'm a nurse and we only have two male nurses on the staff, but one of them in particular gets away with doing very little. The manager will give the female nurses extra jobs to do, but not the man. They seem to just accept it. He also gets virtually every weekend off.

Original poster
Lovethighland · 26/02/2019 11:05

There was a thread on the employment board about an "aggressive" female worker.

It wouldn't surprise me if I heard I was known to be aggressive. I consider myself assertive - which is better than passively picking up everyone else's mess!

OP posts:
Adeste · 26/02/2019 11:15

I also think there is a lot of White Horse Syndrome. Ime women are very good at seeing trouble brewing and acting to prevent it, so that no one in authority is even aware of them. Men don’t seem to see it until it’s a huge issue but then sweep in and deal with it loudly and with much brow wiping and back patting. To the higher ups they have averted the crisis and are heroes.
I’ve seen this play out over and over.

Original poster
Lovethighland · 26/02/2019 12:27

Oh yes this adeste.

OP posts:
JenniferJareau · 26/02/2019 12:37

Part of it I think is them being protected by other men in power. I knew of a man who had an affair with someone he was managing which, for that company, was a sackable offence. The senior male management said he only did it because his marriage was breaking down and gave him a free pass and moved him on to a new location and hushed it all up.

winterinmadeira · 26/02/2019 12:41

Totally agree. It’s happened to me and I’ve seen it happen to numerous women around me.

IfNotNowThenWhy · 26/02/2019 12:48

YES is the answer to your question. It gets so bad once men and women pass about 35 that I really don't think I could work in an office ever again.
Sometimes women collude by pandering to useless/lazy/ clueless men though, which winds me up even more.
But, yeah. Even in overwhelmingly female work environments men will be over represented in management.
They think it's because women take maternity leave -what's that, on average twice, a year max? ( it was 6 months when I had DC anyway)
It isn't. It's because universally men are seen as more important and more competent than women no matter what we do. Even when they are shit.

Birdsgottafly · 26/02/2019 13:46

"When I have had to take time off or leave early for child related stuff, this has been problematic - a general assumption that I lack commitment."

I've seen that, whilst 'one of the lads' sneaks off early to get to a football match, or suddenly phones in sick on a day that they'd previously tried to book off and coincides with a main match and it's treated as a laugh.

More often than not, the Single Mothers were the most dependable for working on a Saturday. Yet they'd be overlooked, because they might have child care issues.

Likewise the day after a bank holiday 'the lads' would come in hung over and practically do nothing all day.

Original poster
Lovethighland · 26/02/2019 19:53

Sometimes women collude by pandering to useless/lazy/ clueless men though, which winds me up even more.

This.

OP posts:
Splodgetastic · 26/02/2019 20:07

I have recently written about this on another thread (I hope this doesn’t make it a TAAT!) where I mentioned that I had done numerous professional exams, but others I knew who were powering ahead had not put themselves out there. They are without exception men. Sex is probably not the only factor but it is A factor.