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Original poster

DC being "top of their class"?

70 replies

CruiseSpeed · 23/02/2019 10:42

I read this on MN a lot, posters stating that their DC are very bright and are "top of their class" and it's always confused me. British schools don't have such a system in place, surely? And certainly not one that is publicly shared with parents.

Are there actually primary schools around that routinely rank their pupils in terms of academic performance and then inform them of their position in this?

I'm sure the teachers have a very clear understanding of their pupils' relative strengths (academic and otherwise) but this isn't something that they tell parents about is it? Obviously they report to parents about their own child's progress, but would it not be hugely unprofessional to discuss that in terms of how this relates to their peers?

OP posts:

GreenTulips · 23/02/2019 12:30

i agree kids do know who’s top readers spellers maths and writing

They are grouped and the brighter kids are competitive

The lower end tend to get all the awards

Kids know!!
Parent a talk

SoupDragon · 23/02/2019 12:33

Mixed ability teaching in junior school worked much better.

I always think mixed ability teaching fails those at the two ends of the scale.

StinkyCandle · 23/02/2019 12:33

I think we should make the information available to the kids, like it used to be - tests given back from last to first, or first to last. It's not a big deal, and it would stop all the parents announcing smugly that their little darling is at the top of the class. Well, one parent will be able to, but the other 29 won't!

The ones with the worst results usually were the ones taking pride in being the class clown, the others don't give a damn. You are not popular because you have good or average marks in class.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General education

SoupDragon · 23/02/2019 12:35

Maybe we should make the thick ones stand in the corner with a dunce cap on too 🙄

Punxsutawney · 23/02/2019 12:38

One of our local secondary schools (not the one that my child attends) do rank order assessments. Every child in the year group knows which number they are from top to bottom. I'm really not sure about how it works to make much of a comment about it but I would it would be interesting to know how the children feel that rank down the lower end.

flitwit99 · 23/02/2019 12:39

We used to get tests on a Friday then have to sit in order, so top scoring person at the back left, lowest scoring person straight in front of the teacher's desk. I was generally in the top 5 and competition was fierce. So for us it was a great motivator trying to get the top seat. But how awful for the people at the bottom.

AnnaMagnani · 23/02/2019 12:43

In ye olden days - well the 1980s - my school did make the information available to the children.

We had something called 'Form Order' which was announced once a week at assembly to the whole school so everyone knew exactly where you were. Three times a year it was done by way of exams just for good measure.

No good came of it as the children perennially at the bottom were demoralized and those at the top were bullied for being swots.

It was grim and it has given me great happiness that said school no longer exists and is now a block of luxury flats.

Starlight456 · 23/02/2019 12:49

I do think kids know . My Ds at one point had to go to the year above for reading books .so all the kids knew the couple that did.

I was also told from secondary school hecus the best debater in the class ( I read it as code for can argue the toss about anything) he certainly isn’t the top at everything but knows where his strengths lie

StinkyCandle · 23/02/2019 12:53

Maybe we should make the thick ones stand in the corner with a dunce cap on too

no, so much better to praise and mollycoddle the lazy trouble makers who refuse to do anything, disrupt the class and are wasting everybody's time.
We wouldn't want little darlings to have any incentive to do any work do we.

GreenTulips · 23/02/2019 13:03

Not all those at the bottom are thick or trouble makers

Some have no support at home
Some have disabilities
Some work hard and fail tests
Some aren’t taught to pass tests

Some have wonderful strengths that aren’t measured

Who’s be top of the class for kindness?
Who’s be top for teamwork?
Who be top for helping others?

We look at these qualities in relationships, I’ve never been in a date and checked out their GCSE results

MyOtherProfile · 23/02/2019 13:11

In my experience as a teacher and as a parent schools don't tell you of your child is top, especially because they may not be top of anything, and actually what does it matter who is top? What matters more is that children are reaching their own personal potential.

Children do of course have a good sense of who is where in class but they're not always right in all areas.

Kismetjayn · 23/02/2019 13:17

You can see from all these answers that actually no one knows who top of the class is

'yes, because my child is in the top grouping' doesn't tell you who the top child is. Just that they are grouped according to ability. And it would be hard to tell anyway unless there was an actual prodigy in the class- eg another child and I were often both getting full marks in sciences, but when it came to nitty gritty tests on physics he did better at maths and I did better at theory.

JoshLymanIsHotterThanSam · 23/02/2019 13:23

When talking about my own children I mean top of the class as being in the high ability group-not actually top of the class.
For eg dc4 is in the top ability group for maths-that’s not a brag, that’s fact. He’s year two and working at greater depth in all areas of mathematics, in general conversation (not that it happens very often) this translates to he’s top of the class for maths.

It’s never meant as a brag, those people I’d be talking to about him would also know that he’s under assessment for ASD, is struggling massively socially and I’m really very worried about him and school.

QueenofLouisiana · 23/02/2019 13:25

My yr5/6 all know what they got in each assessment I do- they ask their mates, who may or may not share their own scores. They choose their own level of challenge in lessons (with guidance if needed) and know who “always” takes the top or bottom level. However, as a teacher, I know it changes from topic to topic- the child who understands fractions may be flummoxed by co-ordinates or angles.

I tell parents about support put in place for their child (with a rough idea of how many are in that particular group if it is relevant) or extension opportunities I regularly give to their child. I’d never tell them about a position in a class. They are fluid from week to week, they don’t help give much perspective (one cohort may be very weak or stronger than usual) and can encourage a child with poor self-esteem to give up or an overly-confident child to decide that they don’t need to bother- neither scenario is good for future learning.

Prokupatuscrakedatus · 23/02/2019 13:31

My DD has ADHD inattentive and severe discalculia.
Before she was diagnosed and got proper help and we changed school, she was the little thicko - "some kids just have to fall down at the back" - as her teachers so professionally told me.
And she was trying so very very hard.
Until I had an 8 year old that "no longer wanted to exist", and that was without telling everybody publicly ( @StinkyCandle ).

SinkGirl · 23/02/2019 13:31

Shit like this is why I’m already terrified about my twins starting school - they have both recently been diagnosed with ASD and the fact that people still associate low test scores with being lazy troublemakers is why I’m so worried for their future.

JenFromTheGlen · 23/02/2019 13:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Prokupatuscrakedatus · 23/02/2019 13:42

@SinkGirl
DD is now doing her state finals and is on her way to university (if she wants to go this way).
DS (ASD) - directly went to the right school for him and we were spared another suicidal child. He's in mainstream with teachers who go above and beyond for every child in their care.
Of course, we as parents (that is mostly me) have helped to avoid making the teachers and classmates lives more difficult than they needed to be.

thirdfiddle · 23/02/2019 13:45

I've found teachers surprisingly keen to tell me exactly where my child stands whether "I don't have any others working at DC's level so we're doing ..." or "DC is doing really well at X, I have a few others working at a similar level so we're going to ..." or "I've put him in my top group for X, he's working a bit below their standard but I think the challenge will be good for him", or "I've taken him out of my top group this term, he really needs to work on ..."
I'd rather not know really, I want to talk about what my child needs to do to progress, and other children being ahead or behind doesn't really help either way.

Also you sometimes get DC coming home saying "I got the best score in the class on ..." - obviously they don't tend to point it out when they don't score top but if it happens every maths test you can have a good idea DC is good at that subject.

missyB1 · 23/02/2019 13:59

I’m so glad it’s not like this in ds school. Yes they are grouped for maths and literacy but none of the kids make a big deal about it. They do have tests but again no big deal about results- they are given in private. Much more emphasis is put on effort rather than results , and every half term parents receive their child’s effort grades. We do have prize giving at the end of the year but besides the academic and sporty ones there are prizes for;
Resilience
Kindness
Integrity
Positive attitude etc.

Hollowvictory · 23/02/2019 14:01

Yes teachers do tell you this, informally at parents evening.
Why do you think this is the case? 🙄

Punxsutawney · 23/02/2019 14:03

To be honest being academically able is not much good if you struggle with the rest of your life.

My Ds is at a state grammar and is able but he is also undergoing assessment for ASD. He has told us over half term that he is being picked on because he has some support for associated issues. He is academically able and got his place at the school without tutoring. But he struggles with rigidity, sensory issues and communication. I don't think he will ever reach his full potential.

If I could swap some of his academic ability for some normality in his life I would in a heartbeat. It is difficult seeing your child so unhappy. His older dyslexic brother who has now left school would have been considered a more middle of the road child and has enjoyed a lot of success. I think as long as your child is reaching their potential it should not matter at all where they are within a year group.

Stuckforthefourthtime · 23/02/2019 14:05

Children know. My DC's school doesn't set by ability but I always knew that dc1 was doing well and around the middle or just above expectations, and that Ds2 was 'top of the class'.

Interestingly to me, lots of the other parents knew too, especially about Ds2 who is very far ahead - i never talk about it, but think a lot of kids come home and chat to their parents about the other kids in their classes. Mine never really have.

StinkyCandle · 23/02/2019 14:05

Who’s be top of the class for kindness?
Who’s be top for teamwork?
Who be top for helping others?

We look at these qualities in relationships, I’ve never been in a date and checked out their GCSE results

none of that seem disruptive to the class, so these are not trouble makers are they. That said, kindness doesn't give you an education or a job, but I don't think being nice is ever seen as a negative in a class!

Hollowvictory · 23/02/2019 14:15

There are loads of awards at our school for kindness, teamwork, being helpful, tidying up etc. Tonnes of recognition for those things.

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