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Original poster

MPs leaving their party- how come they keep their seats ?

81 replies

Aridane · 20/02/2019 07:41

When an MP resigns from their party - whether to join another political party or become an independent- how come they keep their seat?

If I vote, I vote not just for the individual but also for the political party they represent.

OP posts:
MrsAmaretto · 20/02/2019 09:44

For Westminster elections we vote for the person, not the party.

The lack of knowledge that this is what we’re voting on is embarrassing and possibly why this country is so fucked.

DGRossetti · 20/02/2019 09:49

A related question is should there be a fresh election if the PM changes ?

Incidentally, voting for the person, as we do, is why it was "puzzling" that the media got it's knickers in a twist over the 2010 resulting coalition Hmm. There's no space on the ballot paper for what government you get anyway ....

DippyAvocado · 20/02/2019 09:50

There is not a precedent for a by-election. I think there have been around 70 incidents of MPs leaving or changing their parties and by-elections have only been run in 4 of them. There was no by election when the two Tory MPs defected to UKIP (although one lost his seat at the next election). There also wasn't a by-election when Douglas Carswell returned to the Conservative Party despite having been elected as a UKIP candidate.

birdsdestiny · 20/02/2019 09:53

To be honest it may not work but at least they are trying to make the changes that need to be made. Vast swathes of the country are politically homeless and want a new party. Three conservative mps are holding a press conference this morning.

Bluestitch · 20/02/2019 09:55

There was no by election when the two Tory MPs defected to UKIP

Douglas Carswell did resign his seat and trigger a by election.

MillytantForceit · 20/02/2019 09:58

Zac Goldsmith

He resigned as a Tory MP to fight a by-election as an independent, and lost.

He then came back as a Tory candidate the following year and got back in by a handful of votes.

His principled reason for triggering the by-election was over the Heathrow third runway which he said he would not support, until he stood on a manifesto promising to build it.

Bluestitch · 20/02/2019 09:59

Actually just checked and so did Mark Reckless- both resigned their seats when they defected to UKIP and triggered by elections and both won them.

DippyAvocado · 20/02/2019 10:06

Thanks Bluebell. I genuinely don't remember that! There is no constitutional law that says it's necessary though. As PP said, you vote for a representative, not a party.

I suspect there will be a GE pretty soon anyway.

DippyAvocado · 20/02/2019 10:07

Sorry, Bluestitch

Original poster
Aridane · 20/02/2019 10:46

The ballot box paper IIRC contains first the candidAte’s name and underneath the political party.

Irrespective of the legalities, I think the morally right thing to do is for the defecting MP to resign his seat and stand for Re election in a bye election.

I would be a bit hacked off if my Labour MP defected to UKIP. Or my Conservative MP to the Labour Party.

OP posts:
Justanotherlurker · 20/02/2019 10:54

For Westminster elections we vote for the person, not the party.

In theory, however that's not how its used in practice

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-voters-reasons-jeremy-corbyn-manifesto-local-mp-mandatory-reselection-a7840856.html

d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/01h35vzc5b/InternalResults_170613_Coding_WhyConLab_W.pdf

Justanotherlurker · 20/02/2019 11:01

In shocking news, a politician changes their opinion based on which circumstances favour their personal agenda

twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/11763688769?s=19

birdsdestiny · 20/02/2019 11:19

Three conservative mps have just resigned , interesting times.

SisterOfDonFrancisco · 20/02/2019 12:39

Those saying they vote just for the individual, do you not pay any attention to what party they're running under? What manifesto that party has?

DGRossetti · 20/02/2019 13:39

Those saying they vote just for the individual, do you not pay any attention to what party they're running under? What manifesto that party has?

Enough people vote by rosette to pretty much nullify personal voting anyway ...

BerensteinBear · 20/02/2019 14:05

Aridane
Yes agreed.
I think they should show the courage of their convictions and hold bye elections.

bingoitsadingo · 20/02/2019 14:42

I don't think they should have to have a by-election.

But then I also think party logos should be removed from voting slips so that you can't blindly vote for a party if you haven't at least looked up in advance who the candidate is.

MPs can U-turn on all sorts of things once elected to parliament. I'd far rather they changed their party to fit their politics than vice versa.

Rade · 20/02/2019 14:48

Because you do not, in fact, vote for the party or the leader. In a Westminster system you vote for your local MP.
Absolutely. We had an excellent local MP who is dedicated and hard working and well regarded locally. I vote for him not his party leader.

There was that woman MP who was sent to prison. I think she should have been forced to resign.

DGRossetti · 20/02/2019 14:49

MPs can U-turn on all sorts of things once elected to parliament. I'd far rather they changed their party to fit their politics than vice versa.

But surely blind dogma isn't good for democracy ? There are all sorts of reasons why someones point of view can change - new information and research, unforeseen events. Part of the reason politics is so febrile at the moment is that for a lot of people the underlying premise and delivery of the 2016 referendum is so clearly flawed that to soldier on - into goodness knows what - cannot be justified.

bingoitsadingo · 20/02/2019 14:58

@DGRosetti, I agree.

In general though, I don't think people who swap parties do so because their political opinions have changed, they do it because they feel their perspective (for which they were voted into parliament) is no longer represented by their party. I'm not sure I'm convinced that a by-election is necessary because the party someone is attached to has changed, when the MP concerned has a consistent opinion. In the general case, I think perhaps joining a new political party should require a by-election to be called, but not leaving to stand independently.

In this case, I think calling by-elections this close to Brexit would be downright irresponsible.

Original poster
Aridane · 20/02/2019 14:58

RDe - I don’t suppose your MP was Simon Hughes??

OP posts:
Original poster
Aridane · 20/02/2019 14:59

(sorry- that was to Rade)

OP posts:
bingoitsadingo · 20/02/2019 14:59

My point was not that MPs shouldn't change their opinions, but that a substantial opinion change is apparently not grounds for a by-election, but remaining constant in opinion whilst changing party allegiance to one that better represents those views is? I don't agree with that view.

DGRossetti · 20/02/2019 15:12

In this case, I think calling by-elections this close to Brexit would be downright irresponsible.

I wonder what that would do to the parliamentary arithmetic in a vote ?

TalkinPeece · 20/02/2019 15:19

Depends how you want money spent.

A parliamentary By Election costs around £50,000

money that would be better spent on front line services.

The Local council elections are coming up in May.
A General election is likely before the end of the year
if by elections are needed, they should be combined into existing dates

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