Struggling to cope with my Dd

[MsAnnThropic]

Hi,

I'd really like some advice. I'm really struggling to cope with my eldest Dd (9). She is angry and goes out of her way to defy us at every opportunity.

An example is this evening; I asked the children to go upstairs and brush their teeth. The younger two go and Dd rolls around on the floor yelling no. This goes on for 15 minutes, during which time I stay very calm and explain that we have a busy week ahead and need to get sorted for bed. She glares and shouts no. I explain that I don't want to have to carry her because I'm struggling with a neck / shoulder injury.

Another 5 minutes and I snap, shout at her and carry her down the hallway. I couldn't get her to brush her teeth and she's now in her room, kicking both feet very hard on to next door's wall ( she knows this gets a reaction as they have two young children, and I don't want to upset them) She's shouting that I'm an idiot and I hate her .

I don't know what to do. This happens all the time. It's exhausting and scares the younger two. She is a model pupil at school, so asking them for support has proved futile.

How would you deal with the above?

I want to deal with this calmly and kindly, but I end up getting so cross. I'm sat in my room in tears because this just keeps happening.

Sorry this is SO long. Thank you if you got this far. Would really appreciate some insight/advice.

I'd do the two younger ones seperatly. Let the 9 year old have an extra 15 mins as a perk of being older.

How big a gap between the youngest and her? Is a group bedtime too early for her?

Possibly. My next one down is six. The tricky thing is she's the one who deals the worst with being tired. When she goes later we seem to get more and more of the behaviour. Might be worth a try over half term though.

I'd sit her down when she's not tired, tell her that the bedtime routine is clearly not working for either of you, and ask her for her input in changing it.

Goes up 15 mins after younger DC's? New toiletries, toothbrush? Then she can get ready while you sort the others, and then she gets a bedtime chat with you?

If she's well behaved at school, and bedtime is a trigger point, I'd try and get her to work with you.

@cuddlysnowleaopard That sounds sensible. Thank You. I'll give it a try. We do get a lot if this at bedtimes, but to be honest some days she will just be in one of these moods, seemingly without reason, but addressing bedtime seems a goid place to start. Thank You

Agree with a later bedtime. I’d say if you have been through all that tonight already and it’s not yet 8pm that that is just too early for a 9 year old. (Unless you are in a different time zone?)

Our oldest has an extra 15-30 minutes and it does work. However, poor behaviour choices earlier in the day will result in 5 minutes off bedtime for each instance, with one warning. Also any buggering about at bedtime itself results in an earlier bedtime the following night.

We try to end every day with 1:1 time, once in bed. Either story, or a ‘what was good today, what was a problem / worry’ chat. Or both. It seems to help.

Thank you. We are going to try that from now on.

What is she like at school? Does she follow the rules or is she the same there?

I do think maybe you need to treat her as slightly older, explain to the younger two the rules are different for her. Given her reaction, I’d highly recommend ‘The Explosive Child’ by Ross Greene which help you look at things from the child’s perspective, aides communication. It’s really helped with my DD when we’ve had problems (very sensitive 5 year old!(.

Thank you. I'll definitely look into ordering that.

Yes. She is a model pupil at school. Follows the rules. Goes out of her way to be helpful and thoughtful... We discussed the anger issue with her class teacher at parent's evening and he couldn't believe it... he was utterly gobsmacked!

Is her dad around? How does he approach it?

Get " how to talk so kids will listen " book and try some of the ideas

Don't pick up a 9 year old unless she s in danger or sick....
Leave her on floor

He is around. He is struggling too, TBH. Though he quite often wraps her in a huge bear hug when she's at her most angry. She responds well to him if he does that. She doesn't when I do it.

Yes. I regret lifting her. I was at the end of my tether and knew at the time I was making a mistake :( Would you have just left her until she moved if her own accord @cestlavielife ? Ie. Just totally ignored and carried on ? Or something else?

Yah leave her
You posted at 19 37
A 9 year old could go to bed at 9 pm and still get 10 hours sleep to get up at 7 am
So leave her.
What bad thing would happen if she went to bed an hour or more later?

Yeah. It's got to be worth a try... I'm wary because she reacts really badly to being tired. We see this sort of behaviour a lot (not just at bedtime) and I've identified tiredness as the main trigger. She goes to bed at 9 on Weds because of Brownies and is aleays vile on a Thursday. She's always up at 6 regardless.

As my DS2 points out, though, going to bed later because if a club isn't the same as going to bed later because you are relaxing at home.

9 years old is about the age where my dcs took a bit of control of bedtime. So, if you say upstairs to bath/shower at 8pm, then chat/story until 8.30pm, but they get to read and turn their bedside light off when they are ready (but before 9pm).

Or move the whole thing 30 mins earlier etc.

It's a balance between them growing up and taking more responsibility, but still fitting in with family rules.

And, yes, I would leave a tantruming 9 year old on the floor and would ignore her. In fact, I would go upstairs and sort out her bedroom without her. If she wants attention, she can come up to bed for it. I've been known to read an entire story and bedtime song to an empty bed, with a four year old on the floor outside the bedroom. Only happened once

I think previous posters have hit the nail on the head and I am also surprised that being the oldest she is being sent to bed with the little ones. She is older so perhaps start making her feel like she is the older sister and treat her differently.

Thank you! It has got to the stage where I can't see the wood for the trees, so I appreciate your advice/input.

We've had another really challenging afternoon. She just seems so angry with me. I'll tackle bedtimes first... I can always hope it will have a knock on effect on the rest of the day!

I might get flamed for this but I don’t think a “calm and kind” approach works well for every child. My ds, admittedly on the asd spectrum, needs clear, defined boundaries.

For instance, on difficult days like returning to school after a holiday, when I completely understand the disorientation and disappointment a soft, kind approach adds fuel to the fire. He does much better with a firm and slightly stern approach (“no more nonsense, let’s get these clothes on”). I suspect that he feels safer, even though for me it goes against my instincts.

He knows that there are limits to the display of anger that I will permit. Kicking doors/ walls is not tolerated and I think it helps him manage emotions that he doesn’t have the capacity to rein in otherwise.

Like your dd he’s a model student at school....and hates it. He comes home exhausted and grumpy. I think because it’s just very difficult to be so good all day. But while he appears to be able to manage himself in school, and therefore should at home, I think there’s much more to it than that.

I’ve had to learn how to switch on and off my “You Shall Not Pass” Gandalf persona rather than actually losing the rag with him.

I compromise heavily in a lot of things, and try to organize our home life to support him and there’s lots of kindness and cuddles too. Instead of bedtime we have bedroom time an hour earlier with time to read and play and generally wind down. The dc are in their own rooms so not interfering with or touching lego or art or generally winding each other up. The younger one gets a bedtime story and chat and then he gets similar when she’s asleep. I’ve been told millions of times that bedrooms are for sleeping and he shouldn’t have toys there etc etc but it works very well for us. What doesn’t work at all are baths before bed because he gets hyper. Sometimes you have to figure out what a particular child needs rather than what is supposed to work.

And when we have a complete disaster or meltdown or tantrum I find it really beneficial to ask later, when everything is calm, for his point of view. The answers are often very unexpected and mostly we’ve been able to figure out a way forward that I just wouldn’t have seen by myself.

bear in mind as well that many 8 -9 year old girls have an overload of hormones at this point in their lives and anger can sometimes be caused by this and they don't understand why they get angry or how to calm down. It's worth talking to her and having a little plan with her on what she can do to calm herself down - like reading in her bedroom for a little while.

My Dd is only 4 so we've got a lot of challenges to come I'm sure! But I am finding tactics from 'how to talk so kids will listen' and '123 magic' really helpful in managing defiance.