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Original poster

New staff member and flexible working

64 replies

Karting1967 · 12/02/2019 22:55

I work for a small company and we have just taken on the first staff member who reports to me. It’s an admin role, customer facing, 9-5.

She’s made a great start so far.

The company is doing well and I will have another direct report in a few weeks with more to follow if all goes to plan.

Due to the fact that new colleague has a long commute (say 2.5 hours per day), the directors are already talking about offering her flexible hours and the possibility to work from home on a regular basis.

Whilst I agree we should do what we can to keep good staff and offer flexibility, I disagree with their suggestion as it only stores up problems for the future as and when other staff join. Someone else will want to start late, finish late; another will want to come in early and finish early... And before you know it everyone’s working different hours that we can’t refuse because we offered it to the first person.

What are other people’s opinions/experience of this?

OP posts:

Glitterbaby17 · 13/02/2019 06:47

I think it sounds like you are trying a bit too hard to exert your power as a manager and not being very nice. You’ve hired someone, they are doing well and the directors want to offer this. Most flexible working agreements have a trial period, why not see how it goes. The best managers operate on trust and providing conditions to let employees perform at their best, not micro managing and being petty to force set hours when it isn’t a business need (which it doesn’t seem to be here as directors have offered this) to make people ‘prove themselves’

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 13/02/2019 06:51

It won’t be harder to say no to other people if this person works flexibly.

Surely if the directors think it would work then that’s all that matters? If it doesn’t, it will reflect on them not you.

I’m not sure why you’re so concerned unless you think you’re being undermined as a line manager by this person being given more flexibility, but I canister that as you say the company has been really good to you.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 13/02/2019 06:52

No idea what a canister has to do with it!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Jobs

MaverickSnoopy · 13/02/2019 06:59

I am currently on mat leave from a SME start up in the tech industry. Having been exposed to how a lot of start ups and sme's are operating it's clear that flexibility is a major factor in staying innovative. Most companies who want to remain successful can see this and are moving away from traditional 9-5 roles, which creates more competition between employers in the workforce. Why not when we have so many different modes of communication now?! Gone are the days of fax and letters or email and phone. We've got video calling, instant messaging and social media as well as an array of mutual online scheduling tools. People don't need to be in the office all the time for standard admin roles. Yes customer facing roles need to be fulfilled but if there's a way of doing that and still being flexible then it's important to do it.

Perhaps your employer is trying to create a culture of flexibility and move with the times to stay innovative. What's proving yourself got to do with it? That's the old school approach. In the modern world less people see it this way. Observation not a criticism.

blueskiesovertheforest · 13/02/2019 07:08

As Jenifer asks, I would like to know whether she actually needs to work 9-5? Does it make any difference to the company or do you just think traditional office hours should be kept because that's just how it is?

My DH has flexible working in an office job and tends to do 7am - 4:30pm four days and leave early on Friday. I work shifts so he doesn't stick religiously to those hours but varies them so that if I'm on a night or early he starts later so that he's home before the kids go to school. Everyone has flexible working at his company and did at his last company too.

thatmustbenigelwiththebrie · 13/02/2019 07:10

Everyone who is a parent in my office is allowed flexible working. Everyone who is not (me included) is not. I feel huge resentment. So I agree that it's not fair not to treat people equally. However, legally you can.

Kintan · 13/02/2019 07:11

You have a very old fashioned view OP - what’s wrong with flexible working (for everyone if needs be)? The directors clearly think it’ll work, so not sure why you have a problem with this. Are you put out because they value her so much that they are looking for ways to make life easier for her - so she will therefore be more likely to stay - before she’s even asked?

ScreamingValenta · 13/02/2019 07:14

Has the employee herself said anything about wanting flexible hours, struggling with the commute etc.?

Whilst it's good to be pro-active and think of options in advance, should she request this, I'm surprised people are jumping the gun by talking about specific flexible options before they are asked for - what the directors are suggesting might not even be a good fit for her.

I think you should wait to see what flexible pattern she wants, if she requests one, and then work out how this fits with the needs of the business, as one would normally do. You shouldn't base your decision on hypothetical requests by hypothetical future employees - your next employee might live 5 mins away, and be happy with 9 - 5.

HarrySnotter · 13/02/2019 07:18

I have mixed feelings about this one due to my own personal experiences.

I worked for a company who started to offer flexible hours for new employees but refused requests from long term employees based on 'they know what they're doing so should be here'. It caused no end of issues. One woman ended up leaving because her husband had left her and her request to come in half an hour later (and leave half an hour's later) so she could get her kids to school, was refused. The new employee in the same role who started the following week was offered those hours from the outset. Lots of good staff left and the company found themselves with lots of very inexperienced staff and no one to guide them, as the manager had also left.

I think flexible working hours are essential for lots of people and should be encouraged, but I think all staff should have the same opportunities if they are needed.

OhTheRoses · 13/02/2019 07:20

What's the business? Can the role be done flexibly?

Generally I think people's commutes are irrelevant and if the role was advertised as 9-5 this shouldn't be an issue.

The op is going to be running a small team. Nothing upsets a team more than a mutual perception that someone else in the team has more preferential contractual arrangements. It's impact on morale can be exponential.

I am minded to agred with the op. This person accepted the T&C's a month ago and is still on probation.

The op is new to role and in the early days needs the full support of her managers to operate her service. They should not be undermining her.

Original poster

Karting1967 · 13/02/2019 07:22

Not sure when I’ve not been ‘very nice’. In the time she’s been here we’ve had one snow day where I insisted she worked at home and didn’t even try to come in, another day where she was caught up in a motorway accident and delayed by an hour and I made it clear she didn’t need to make up the time as I knew she puts in extra anyway.

She’s already doing a great job and I want to reward and keep her. Just not sure this solution is the best for everyone (customers included).

OP posts:

blueskiesovertheforest · 13/02/2019 07:23

All staff should certainly have the same opportunities.

I personally think flexible working (with core hours, typically something like 10:30am-2:30pm Monday to Thursday) if necessary should be the default unless there's a business need for fixed hours.

OhTheRoses · 13/02/2019 07:25

It depends on the business. If staff and customers need services outside 9-5 then they have to be provided.

Kittykat93 · 13/02/2019 07:26

Op it's hard to say unless you answer the questions about her role - can it be done flexibly without issue?? Or is it actually customer facing and how would this work from home?

MrsMoastyToasty · 13/02/2019 07:30

Surely it's her choice to live so far away and not the businesses.

YellowBlankets · 13/02/2019 07:41

It feels like too much too soon when she’s not yet proved herself

I think a truly good manager wouldn't think like this. They would instead assume that the employee would prove themselves until there is clear evidence to the contrary. This is the best way to get the most from your staff.

Boobiliboobiliboo · 13/02/2019 07:41

All staff should certainly have the same opportunities.

Legally they all have the right to apply once a year. They don’t have the right to agreement just because someone else has something.

notanothernam · 13/02/2019 07:47

It has to be done case by case, you can't deny one person flexible working "in case" everyone follow suits, when it stops becoming viable for the business new applicants will be turned down for business reasons. It's called management.

Silkie2 · 13/02/2019 07:54

Tell the powers that be that of course it will be offered across the board, cannot only be for one newcomer, that should make them stop and think. And mention the clear policy and requirments needed to implement this. Good if they go for it but probably it will sound too much like hard work.

Uptheapplesandpears · 13/02/2019 07:55

I once took on a role that had a 90 minute commute every day. Company had an office closer to my home but there was nothing doing there, I needed a job and I wanted to work for them. Thought I could hack the commute, envisaged lots of library books etc. It exhausted me more than I had understood was possible, and as the experience of a long commute is different from the thought of it, I decided to hand my notice in. The next day, the regional director called me in for a meeting and said they'd been able to find room for me in the closer branch after all, because they liked me and thought I had potential. So I stayed with them and the move went very well. For all you know, they're worried about losing her. She's had a couple of travel incidents in the first few weeks, they might even be trying to give her more options when snow etc happens.

Sometimes it makes sense to make accommodations for quite new people, particularly given the costs of recruitment. Just dismissing it because you don't think she's been there long enough to justify it isn't very sensible. You sound inflexible in your thinking. The fact that you're horrified at the prospect of other people maybe wanting it too is very telling.

Lexilooo · 13/02/2019 07:58

You are approaching this backwards, rather than worrying about what would happen if everyone requests flexible working you should be coming up with a policy that provides the option for everyone to request flexible working.

Your response to the director should be that it is a great benefit for staff but it would be unfair to offer it to this lady and not everyone else so we should look at flexible working for everyone.

We have flexible working for everyone and it is fine. In some roles a more structured approach is needed to ensure cover but for many it doesn't really matter when they do the hours or where from.

Whereareyouspot · 13/02/2019 08:01

I agree with you
She isn’t even out of a probationary period and hasn’t asked to work differently
Too soon

As an aside I have several friends who WFT either PT or FT and everyone of them takes the piss a bit by nipping out for exercise or shopping etc etc and do not make the time up. They all admit this. They log calls when they aren’t working. It’s open to abuse.

BatsAreCool · 13/02/2019 08:07

Sitting at a desk can be abused as it doesn't actually mean they are working. The point of flexible working is that it is 'flexible'. If people are not doing their work that should be managed by their manager whether they are at home or in the office. I put the washing on sometimes at home or nip to the shop. If I was in the office I would have gone for a coffee break during that time. No actual difference to my work.

DoingMyBest2010 · 13/02/2019 08:10

Writing from HR point of view: perhaps suggest to your directors to introduce flexible working only after probation periods are passed?
And maybe stipulate that you have to be in the office between 08:00-09:30 and stay at work until 17:00-18:30? It keeps it a bit more regulated during business hours so you would always have some coverage during the day. No point someone strolling in gone 10:00 and staying on after everyone else has gone home, TBH. Working from home even, has proven to be more productive at times.

Lightgreenblue · 13/02/2019 08:11

Assuming you're in the UK then no this is not legal. Approval or rejection of flexible working requests is based on business need not personal circumstances.

Do they actually have this in their policy or are they more secretive about it and mysteriously only parents get approval?

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