Handhold needed/rant... DWP/PIP related...

[MadImFurious]

Can barely think straight. So angry, frightened, frustrated. So tired of dealing with this stupid system, where every door slams in your face, where everything is made as difficult as possible.

Failed assessment for PIP benefit. Assessment a sham, featuring questions like "what treatment are you getting for your autism?"
Report full of lies, and stuff that's not relevent (apparently studying with the Open University because I couldn't cope with a normal uni is somehow evidence I'm fine).

Reconsideration asked for - just got another letter from them saying the same thing, ignoring all the evidence I've provided, and not addressing any of the points I raised, just re-stating lies that I appeared fine in the assessment, and some new lies (eg. claims I got the bus there when I got a taxi).

I'm trapped - I went to the assessment alone because I couldn't get anyone to go with me at such short notice. I really struggledd, and just the whole process of gathering all the evidence messed me up so much it contributed to a breakdown and having to defer university (kind of disproving their point I'm coping by studying).

Gathering evidence is extremely hard, as there are no services or support for adults with ASD, and no mental health services because I just don't fit in their boxes/am "inappropriate" for their services. Although there will be letters stating this, I cannot get hold of copies because they are allowed to withhold upsetting judgemental stuff about mental health from you. A helpful MH professional compiled some evidence for me and sent it through to my GP for me to pick up - GP wouldn't let me have a copy as it "contains confidential information about [your] mental health"!!!! Naturally I had to pay £30 for a GP letter instead, if I wanted anything.

Otherwise evidence is only letter from autism service outlining the (recent) diagnosis and things I struggle with - I cannot get anything more tailored to the situation. There seems to be an assumption that people have support and carers and professionals involved when actually there's little professionals could do and no services anyway!

I'm so very tired of living. Would be nice to know I'm not alone dealing with this stupid, cruel, humiliating system. I just can't bear the way it makes things worse - I am trying so hard to build a proper life and it just knocks me down again and again.

My dear friend, and I call myself that because we have much in common. I've just started the PIP road, sent in my evidence yesterday, at a cost of £17 (between photocopies and registered post), having been in receipt of DLA you could assume that it will be a foregone conclusion but no, I don't expect my claim to have any degree of success.

It's wrong, that we feel like this, its wrong that the system has failed you, will fail me and so many others. I don't have enough energy to fight, but you must. Fight hard, get help, and prove yourself. You will get there, I have no doubt, and be stronger for it.

The thread is from February. Hopefully the original poster has been able to appeal their decision now (or may still be waiting for a tribunal date).

OP the system is utterly unfair and disfunctional and it is humiliating to go through. It can ruin your mental health. Try to access as much support from friends family and health services as you can and also the charities that help people with ESA and PIP claims.
Its a truly sick society that treats vulnerable people like this. I can only hope that everyone involved in the system has to experience it from the other side.

I don’t know if this helps but a lot of these cases have been won because the person doing the test is not properly qualified. Also you have a legal right to see your medical records.

I hope @MadImFurious has found a source of help and has had a good result at Tribunal.

@SallyB392 Did you have help filling in the forms? Benefits and Work have a guide to application and all the appeals but you have to join for a year to access it.
CAB have a free guide online www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/

Re medical records, your GP holds some, 'your' hospital holds others that your GP doesn't have, it may well be worthwhile applying for both.

When you have the Face to Face meeting, if you cannot easily do whatever they ask you, begin your reply with the words 'No, but'

You will need a copy of that report firstly so you can see what points you have been awarded and secondly so you know which areas you need to challenge.

I accompanied a family member and did all the paperwork through their DLA to PIP journey from initial application to Tribunal and would urge anyone who is not extremely resilient in themselves to get as much help and support as they possibly can.

The way everything is conducted can be hard to deal with, e.g. on appeals DWP write and say you must respond within one month of this letter otherwise you are time-barred from continuing, yet that letter has somehow taken 2 weeks to arrive at your house and with the remaining 2 weeks you have, there's a Bank Holiday, so the alleged "One Month" is very much less than a fortnight.

I was challenged for sending something "late" and warned the case would be thrown out. I checked all my dates, I'd sent the documents Post Office Tracked and had screenshotted their receipt of delivery with signature and timestamp which proved it arrived at their correct address two days before their "one month from the date of this letter" deadline. I wrote to them with a copy of the screenshot asking if they could explain why they thought my reply had been submitted "late" and they never replied.
Be prepared to be treated like that, expect setbacks and you'll be better prepared to cope with it.
Tribunal success is still over 70% so it's definitely worth fighting for what you need.

Op, I just wanted to say that you are not alone. Three of my DSs are autistic. Ds1 and 2 got dla as children. Ds2 was given a lifetime award at 18. When it came time to change to PIP, suddenly his autism was cured! He no longer qualifies for any help. Like you, there are no support services here. You are basically given a diagnosis and left to get on with it. Every assessment we have had from the dwp has been full of lies and misrepresentation. It's a joke.

Ds4 has never been able to get any support despite being the worst affected of my children because of the lies told by the assessors. And because we have no professional input, we cannot refute those lies. It is soul destroying.

I have ME, fibro and RA. My doctor has told both me and the dwp that I am substantially disabled but when I went to a PIP tribunal, I was told because I used my hands when I talked and was able to answer their questions that there was actually nothing wrong with me. And, because my kids were home educated, I couldn't possibly have the problems which I said I did. I have very little medical evidence because there is very little that the doctors can do for me other than the pills that I take.
The whole system is not fit for purpose. It is designed to humiliate and dehumanised people. The assessors lie, the guidance they use is appalling. I'm so sorry that you are going through this.
I don't have any advice, I just wanted to offer some moral support.

You're so not alone. I've been fighting the system for a year now. I suffer from depression and anxiety. Unfortunately, because people use both depression and anxiety to explain a "low mood." People like myself, who are completely debilitated by the inexplicable feeling of fear and failure. I feel completely overlooked, and brushed aside. 'Oh don't worry dear, you'll feel better in the morning.' Yeah thanks for that. Having a family that completely depend upon you, and your duty to protect and care for your children, parents, regardless of their age. Being the best parent and daughter you can possibly be, because if you stop trying for just a second, you lose everything. Your dignity, self esteem. Your reason for living. It doesn't mean anything. The will to live would just stop, and believe me, this whole pip process has tested that in me more than my pride will admit to anyone. I subsequently had a breakdown a year ago. Well, I have had the initial meeting with the hp. I scored 0 points. Apparently, because I haven't tried taking my own life, and I can get out of bed in the morning. I'm not considered unwell enough. Ok, so I'll become thoroughly selfish, and not put my family first because my mums cancer for a start isn't as important as my own problems. Whatever!! I will always put my family before my own needs. Not until I am home, alone in my bedroom with my door closed, that the dark vale of despair finally takes hold..... And breathe. Getting back to it. I asked for a mandatory reconsideration. I received 7 points. 8 is the pass point. Appealed to the first tier tribunal. At no time was I given the option of attending a hearing. The hearing took place, and I received a letter stating that my appeal was unsuccessful. I then asked for a statement of reasons. It was riddled with lies and inaccuracies. So I have now appealed to the upper tribunal, highlighting every point they blatantly lied about. It's now the waiting game, again. But, like you, it's one step forward, and infinite steps back. It's a kick in the chops. It's the worst kind of 'kick a man when his down.' As if we didn't have enough to deal with. We are subjected to pen pushers that haven't experienced, what we, the claimants have to go through. I am supposed to live on £67 a week carers allowance and £81 two weekly income support. With this, I am supposed to pay my rent. Pay all my bills. Keep my second hand car on the road, so I can take my parents to their numerous hospital/doctors appointments. Put food on the table. Blah blah blah. I'd like to see them try to do it. So, please? Don't give up! I am here, Metaphorically holding your hand. I may not know how your particular problem affects you, but I do know how the system makes me feel. We are better than that.

@laylarose1

Hopefully I've got the wrong end of the stick here and your appeal is going ahead as it should, but there are a few things that you've said that don't quite fit the procedure.

I'm sorry to be a pain when you've got this far, but I'm concerned that you may not have navigated through the appeals process properly.
Have you followed the online guides or had someone from CAB or similar agencies help you through the process?

There are a couple of things in your account that sound as though you might have come a cropper because you weren't aware of what you needed to do and at what stage.

Did you ask for a copy of the Capita or Atos' Face to Face interview report before you started your appeal for Mandatory Reconsideration ?
If you got it at that time and went through it and argued all the points you thought you should have been awarded at that time and submitted that evidence to Mandatory Reconsideration, then that's correct procedure.

It's just that this sentence Appealed to the first tier tribunal. At no time was I given the option of attending a hearing. The hearing took place, and I received a letter stating that my appeal was unsuccessful. I then asked for a statement of reasons. It was riddled with lies and inaccuracies. So I have now appealed to the upper tribunal, highlighting every point they blatantly lied about sounds as though you've not had the Atos/Capita report until then.

Also you said At no time was I given the option of attending a hearing

Check the paperwork you received after Mandatory Reconsideration. There should be an option on there for you to say you want an oral hearing That's the one you should have chosen if you wanted to appear in front of the Judge, Medical expert and disability expert in person at the First Tier Tribunal. You aren't ever invited, it's just on the form.

Upper or Second Tier Tribunals are only for arguing points of law that you think have not been correctly applied. They deal with the law as related to an appeal and therefore you'd very likely need legal representation. Cases can easily take a year to be heard.

Upper or Second Tier Tribunals do not deal with what you say you submitted, So I have now appealed to the upper tribunal, highlighting every point they blatantly lied about they only deal in specific points relating to case law.

The time for challenging all the blatant lies was the First Tier Tribunal.

Hopefully, I've misunderstood your account and you have followed the procedure correctly, have consulted legal representation and are challenging the First Tier Tribunal's decision by submitting points on on case law to the Upper or Second Tier Tribunal.

If not, perhaps it would be worthwhile starting your claim again and following the procedure to the letter.

Get your local mp involved. I emailed mine when my pip was turned down and then all of a sudden the report was classed as flawed, they wanted to do a home visit which I said not on your nelly, i didn't want them invading my personal space. I said I've done nowt wrong and said I'd commit suicide if they insisted I had to have a home visit. Anyway a few weeks later I got pip the basic rate for both, but at least it's done and dusted for 3 years at least when we start the whole palavar again! I'm still getting over the trauma of the refusal, it was a dark time. It's an inhuman system, and needs updating and fast.

if you are on facebook join this group www.facebook.com/groups/256981071311722/

you are legally entitled to have a copy of anything that is about you under SAR request

Please do appeal the decision. It's still worth asking your local citizens advice for help even if they are busy. I work for a busy local citizens advice and we have specialist staff doing appeals so we can still help. It is also possible to submit a late appeal if you have a good reason (and waiting for a specialist appt is a good reason IMO).

In terms of getting all the evidence, could you:

• Ask the MH professional who sent the evidence to your GP to send you a copy directly
• Make a Subject Access Request at your GP surgery.

Failing that you should write on your appeal paperwork that your GP has evidence that they have refused to give you but have agreed to give it to the DWP if they request it.

Oh crap I didn't see this was an old thread.
Why did it get revived?!

Morning @blanktimes.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I have, as far as I'm aware, followed procedure. When I had my breakdown. I reached out for help. I rang my doctors, who referred me to their care coordinators, (who have supported me in the past.) Who then referred me to a community link worker and mental health nurse. I owe my being here today, to both of these wonderful ladies. My clw has supported me through every step of my pip claim. Attended meetings, and tirelessly filled forms. Supported me through my darkest times. But back to the point. My clw has guided me through the pip process every step of the way. She has sort advice on how best to proceed, either from pip professionals, medical professionals and tribunal services. We did receive a rundown on my initial meeting with the healthcare professional, but i couldn't say for which organisation she worked. We used that face to face report to appeal their decision. Every step of the way, we have been in contact with pip for advice on the next step. I just didn't think it was important to add. Plus, I was struggling last night after a particularly difficult day. But i will point out your suggestions to my clw when next we meet, and thank you for pointing this out to me. I'm not sure what the system think they're achieving by putting claimants through such a process. Which is so detrimental to the health problems that we are seeking help and support with to begin with. I have long said that the system creates situations for people, then punishes us for being in the position that they themselves created.

Morning @MadImFurious
I can't believe you can't access a copy of your medical records. I think it's a case of a postcode lottery. As I said earlier. I have been so blessed with the help and support I have received from my local health care professionals, who, including my doctors, have done as much as they can to help with my plight.
My step daughter, on the other hand, lives only 3 miles away, but under a different county, has no such support for her aspergers syndrome. Taking into account her young age, and the severity of her condition. You'd think the opposite would be the case. It should be 'One NHS, One rule.'
Unfortunately we live in a nanny state, where the whole system is corrupt and money driven.

when I filled in form for dd I stated that there is no medical cure for ASD but as it is a social & emotional & communication impairment the social support she has had or has was the equivalent & than listed everything & everybody who helped her - NAS mat have support groups - often volunteers locally some of which may have support workers who can help you - otherwise look up disability groups in your area many cant help with the initial form but will help at refusal for pip
Word to the wise for anybody filling in form as soon as you get it get help fill in everything attach copies of everything put name & address of anybody who has supported you in anyway (including employment support & housing officers & charities) refer to paperwork attached through the form - you cannot put to much down (told this by charity) take time filling in form - do it in rough first. & I repeat fill in every question do not miss anything out - you may have to repeat yourself don't worry that proves that the impairment affects multiple parts of your living/life - my sympathy op - can you get medical records from hospital? If not mention all medical people you have dealt with & list them plus contact details - blind them with info - this can mean that they might overturn assessment before you have to review & yes it does happen

You can appeal and I’d suggest you do that

They lie they mislead and will put words in your mouth get the report and go through it line by line underline lies and write letters for each lie and counter get friends neighbours doctors vets to help write letters supporting what you say. If you say you never leave the house get signed letters from neighbours around you proving it. If you say you can't sleep tell 5 am arrange a neighbour to ghost you for a night and take photos of your routine document everything. 🙄 Use the Internet if they say your fine cause of this. Find examples and documents explaining that's normal. They did it to me and I have my next review in 3 months panic time (autistic here)

Hi, have read this thread. My son is autistic, still waiting for official diagnosis, almost five years. Had an appointment last December, but was cancelled, they say it could be another THREE YEARS to get another one.
I have also had benefits stopped three times in as many years. Last time was this year.
I suffer sleepless nights, especially the night before my money is due, in case they do it again. Am still in debt, mainly rent, as they stopped payments twice. First I knew was when I got the court summons.

Like many, the report the assessor wrote was a pack of lies. Luckily, this time I had a support worker, who was able to attest to the lies. I also have trouble getting medical evidence.
The whole process is degrading, cruel and made to make you fail.

This part of your information really stood out to me; "A helpful MH professional compiled some evidence for me and sent it through to my GP for me to pick up - GP wouldn't let me have a copy as it "contains confidential information about [your] mental health"!!!! Naturally I had to pay £30 for a GP letter instead, if I wanted anything."

Under data protection laws, you should be able to any and ALL information held about you, by using a freedom of information request! I'm not entirely sure how you do it, but it might be worth having a look at, xXx

I appreciate this is an old thread but the information people are providing is important.

I would really really implore anyone struggling with this stupid system to contact their MPs for support. Its amazing how quickly decisions can be reviewed and changed if you get someone fighting in your corner.

Just joined today, regarding this thread I would recommend joining the benefits & work community ,costs about £15 a year for which you get access to all guides and advice on how claim any benefits you are entitled to .Went through the esa and pip process myself ,dark days indeed,but my daughter help me thru paid for the aforementioned site between that and a great cab helper who came to support my appeal I got thru it .hope this helps, you are not alone so keep your chin up and fight.
Regards J ohn.

I am really sorry this has happened to you. So many have had similar experiences, we just don't get to hear about it. I have had an assessment too that has gone wrong for me. Only thing I can suggest is keep plugging along and every time it goes wrong and you get knocked back as for a reconsideration. It will eventually come down to a truly outside opinion. I have done this been there. However this last time I asked for more help as they say you must tell them if anything changes! I was refused what
I had already and stopped my money from pips altogether. After asking for a few handrails in the house I was suddenly in front of another assesment after only 7 months of my last review. Lol I have decided that I now want to go to a tribunal. It's the only way I feel I am going to get a fair shake at this. After one assesment I missed it by 1 point after the second I missed it by 2 so who is wrong? The first or second? It's amazing how opinions are different! Keep at it and if you need shout me private on FB. I will always let ya use me as a sounding board!! Big hugs xxx

Hi have gone through 3 failed assessments due to lies. Told to go to argos and by a self propelled wheelchair even though I have 2 protruding discs. Failed esa because of lies and told to get a job. Took them to a tribunal and won. Aplied for pip in February and told them in September wanted paper assessment as you are entitled to one but not many people know. Paid 30 for a gp letter sent that in saying I could attent a face as incontinent. Dwp lost letter and capita wrote and said because I didn't attend I failed. Sent copy of letter and they messaged saying get back to you in 10 weeks and capita have written saying they will send me a date for assessment. You can get every single doctors note, xray or scan from NHS they send a link via email with a password.