Service charge - difference of opinion. Any thoughts?

[Lottapianos]

Out for lunch today with DP and another couple, Him and Her. Had a lovely time, good food, good booze. We always split the bill between couples when we go out

Bill arrives and I see that no service charge has been added, so I mention this to other couple, wondering how much they wanted to leave as a tip. Her says that they never pay any sort of service charge, unless service has been really exceptional. I asked why not, she said that it's normally included in the total I said that it clearly wasn't on today's bill. Him piped up with saying that he wasn't interested in topping up people's wages and that minimum wage should be higher. I said that I agree it should be higher but it's not, and why should our poor waiting staff suffer. Him said that if they didn't like it, they could get another job. Yes, really

The upshot was that I paid all of the tip (what i thought was reasonable) with no contribution from them. For context, they confirmed that they had no complaints whatsoever about the service we received. They are in well paid jobs and not remotely hard up. Their part of the service charge sound have been under a tenner

I'm really taken aback by their attitude and think it's extremely tight and mean not to tip for decent service. Any thoughts, and how have you handled similar situations?

I was a waitress for years. It was hard work but really not that hard. I've never been a carer but I can see that's ten times harder. I work a hell of a lot harder now in a job where I sit on my bum all day.

Troels, do you never get bored of rehashing out those ‘profound’ statements about rich people?

Happy to tip if the person who served me gets it but so often it is siphoned off by management. I often leave a cash tip but I know in some places the waiting staff would be sacked if they didn't put it in the kitty.

I should choose where my tip goes, not the management. However, I will pay a service charge if it is already on the bill to avoid a scene.

Also agree, why catering staff and not carers and retail workers?

Unless I'm in NYC I'm not going to tip. I don't have a lot of spare money and I'm not going to pretend I have to impress other people 👍

Auntiepatricia Have I said it here before? Refresh my memory.
Does it cut a little close to the bone for you?

The fact you see it as “full tip and half tip” is odd because surely you just tip what you want not a set amount?

He didn’t want to tip, you did. He didn’t tip, you did. Surely that’s the end of it?

It’s their choice whether to tip and quite rude of you to decree how much they ‘should’ tip. I feel you are the CF here OP and would have been miffed with you.

@fatoneatthegym no my husband would kill me if I asked them to remove it, he'd die of embarrassment ha, I'd only do it if I felt the service was crap as I'd feel a bit cringe asking them to remove it even though I don't agree with it, if I was feeling arsey I'd check it goes to them at least and if it doesn't would probably then have the confidence to ask to remove, but yes I hate when they add service in this country.

If you're out with them again and don't know the service charge policy, you could always ask for separate bills.

I do not pay service charges or tips. If it’s added to the bill I take offence and no way I pay it.
It should be totally your choice and if you choose to or not is exactly that your choice.

Don't sweat the small stuff, just avoid a meal with them in future as it's obvious you have different perspectives, I always tip unless bad service.

I don't really tip. 🤷 Dh does. Not sure I'd have appreciated your feeling it was your place to question me on it tbh

Sorry Lottapianos just seen your comment to me.

It goes against most of the PPs on this thread, but in your place, I'd have paid the full tip, or as much of it as I could afford as long as the meal/service were ok.

I don’t agree with tipping. I have worked as a carer and a waitress/ pot washer as a student and the carer job way the toughest. I used to alternate with another girl, who pot washed and who waited on. The pot washing days were tougher and I made less money.
People only tip waiters as it’s the done thing and they don’t want to lose face in front of others. So I do generally tip because i feel I will be judged. But I do feel annoyed that the just the waiter will get it and not the poor pot washer in the back.

I think it's an issue of definition.

I was always of the impression that if a service charge is added separately to the bill then service is not included in the cost of the meal, so anything left by the customer over and above the service charge would be a tip. I have eaten at places in the past which stated service is not included, although I think this is less common now. It did used to regularly be the case in France and is still the case in the USA that service is not in the initial cost of the meal.

If service isn't itemised on the bill then I assume it is included in the cost of the meal and would then decide whether or not to tip for good service.

Due to the above in this instance I would have paid the service charge in full, however I wouldn't have made an issue of it, it would have been done quietly.

'If service isn't itemised on the bill then I assume it is included in the cost of the meal and would then decide whether or not to tip for good service. '

Hadn't thought of it that way. I just always assume that service charge needs to be paid unless there is a reason not to, and it will either be added to the bill for you, or left up to your discretion

'however I wouldn't have made an issue of it, it would have been done quietly.'

Surely you would have had a conversation with your friends about what to do re the service charge?

If you want to tip then go ahead but you shouldn't make that decision for anyone else.

I always tip and would have automatically assumed the other couple would have as well so what would have asked what level they wanted to tip at as you did.
Unless you are on your uppers it is pretty tight fisted not to.

I never tip unless they have gone above and beyond.

They are paid their hourly wage

As I’m getting older I find I’m less likely to tip
Also , why should we tip in a restaurant which is charging eg £3.50 for a cup of tea when it prob cost them 10p ? And why is this sector more deserving of a tip than other jobs?

Lottapianos - probably wouldn't have had the conversation tbh. The older I get the more I realise how different people's opinions are and how feisty they can be about their particular way of doing things! You are clearly much braver than I. Also I'm not implying you were in any way wrong to address it, just different to me.

Some family members have just returned from a very very expensive cruise and have treated themselves to some extremely lavish gifts for Christmas whilst away. However they got onboard and went and removed their gratuities at the purser's office because a few years ago they found out their friends remove theirs and decided to do the same. I was quite dismayed as cruise staff earn a very low wage anyway and it seemed heartless to save a relatively small amount of cash at the expense of someone so much further down the socio economic ladder. I haven't raised it with them this time as I have previously and although they concurred that the staff work hard, earn low wages and are away from their families for extended periods, they still preferred to have the money for themselves. People tend to be quite set in their ways when it comes to cash.

Thanks ToPlanZ. I'm not sure I did the right thing but I appreciate your vote of confidence!