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Which plant 'milk'?

41 replies

PurpleAndTurquoise · 03/02/2019 11:13

I want to switch from animal milk to plant 'milk' for ethical reasons.
It's really just for tea/coffee and cooking as no one in the family drinks it on its own.
Which is likely to be a good replacement taste wise? There are so many to choose from. DS has Coeliac Disease and can't have oats for another year (possibly never).
Thanks

OP posts:
LilQuim · 03/02/2019 21:30

Only ones that have little to no taste for me are - Blue Diamond unsweetened almond or M&S unsweetened almond (in their fridges). Alpro tastes vile. Soya is vile. Coconut is fine if you like coconut flavour, but I'd rather not. There is one called Mylk (something like that) & it's coconut based, comes in skimmed, semi or full varieties, but I think it has oats in too.

TeddyIsaHe · 03/02/2019 21:36

Almond is so so bad for the planet. Especially because 80% are produced in Caledonia which is drought-stricken and they pump millions of gallons of water (each almond needs 1.1 gallon of water to grow!) into the almond growing facilities and fucking up everything for the locals.

Coconut milk is the best option if you can’t have oat. Some of them are less ‘coconutty’ than others, but I love the flavour in strong coffee. It’s excellent to cook with as well!

TeddyIsaHe · 03/02/2019 21:37

California!! No idea where Caledonia came from

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newtlover · 04/02/2019 17:38

www.theguardian.com/news/2019/jan/29/white-gold-the-unstoppable-rise-of-alternative-milks-oat-soy-rice-coconut-plant

Op it all depends what your ethical reasons are for avoiding milk. If it's environmental issues that concern you it would be best to drink the most local cows milk that you can
If it's animal welfare, then organic has higher welfare standards but if you don't think they are sufficient then you will have to abandon meat as well as dairy, and most eggs too unless you rear them yourself

kikisparks · 04/02/2019 18:22

@newtlover all vegan milks are better for the environment than local dairy www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-46654042

DoodleLab · 04/02/2019 18:52

Local organic grassfed cows milk (or goats milk) is the most ethical. If animal welfare is your top concern, you can find dairies that do "calf at heel" option.

Soya and oat milks depend on monocultures. That means wiping out all other forms of wildlife on the land... from deer, rabbits, down to insects and bugs in the soil. Huge amounts of industrial inputs are required... haber-bosch fossil fuel based fertilisers, insecticides, fungicides, pesticides, poisons in other words. Can't see how mass poisoning of the land can be ethical, especially when it wipes out keystone species in the ecosystem like bees.

Again, with almonds, they are planted in monocultural groves in California. They are very thirsty trees and are sucking the land dry, contributing to the tinder dry conditions that lead to forest fires. Almonds require bees for pollination, they are shipped in from all across the US in thousands upon thousands of hives, and is one of the main suspects for colony collapse disorder.

www.theguardian.com/food/2018/sep/05/ditch-the-almond-milk-why-everything-you-know-about-sustainable-eating-is-probably-wrong

In well managed, ecological based systems, cattle can co-exist with wildlife and create flourishing nature rich meadows full of wildflowers, birds and animals.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize

There's also the food miles to consider... container ships are seeing a massive growth in numbers as people are buying food and goods from two oceans away in a misguided belief that it's somehow more ethical, forgetting about huge amounts of marine pollution and CO2 emissions.

A plant based -vs- animal based diet is a false dichotomy.

People should be thinking instead about an industrially grown, intensively farmed, monocultural diet that uses up earth's resources in a linear fashion -vs- perennial cropping, pastural, polycultural diet that cycles outputs back into the system in a closed loop fashion.

BlooShampoo · 04/02/2019 19:03

The thing is, no one is claiming that a plant-based diet is environmentally and ethically infallible, just that it is more so than the alternative. Almost all of the soy grown in the world is grown as animal feed for industrially farmed animals who provide the vast majority of animal products, and obviously these animals suffer immensely throughout their shortened lives. Yes, there are small farms, but there’s no need for adult humans to be consuming the breast milk of another species. It isn’t ours to take. And no matter how lovingly they’re farmed, cows fart out an unbelievable amount of methane into the atmosphere. So although i know that the one carton of european-grown almond milk I use every week is not carbon-neutral, I do believe it’s a better option. And, ethics aside, I much prefer the taste.

CoffeeChocolateWine · 04/02/2019 19:12

I don’t drink tea so not sure what’s best for that, but hazelnut milk in coffee is the nicest hands down IMO! Also divine in hot choc. I like the unsweetened almond milk to make porridge.

kikisparks · 05/02/2019 08:14

@DoodleLab “Local organic grassfed cows milk (or goats milk) is the most ethical.” that’s not true.

The definition of ethical is “relating to moral principles or the branch of knowledge dealing with these.”

Morally, killing other sentient beings for pleasure is wrong. This is not subjective. If I killed a dog for fun it would be wrong.

Even calf at foot dairies (which are exceptionally rare and expensive) kill the boys. One of the highest welfare I have seen still sends the males to be killed at 18 months when their natural lifespan is 18 years or more. They will be transported and die frightened in a slaughterhouse.

Dairy cows in general have been bred to overproduce milk which leads to an increase in painful conditions like mastitis.

And that’s the best case scenario. Standard milk cartons are products of immense suffering.

In terms of the environmrnt, grass fed dairy is still worse than all plant milks. Veganic oat farming would be the most sustainable

onedegreeorganics.com/products/sprouted-oat-os-2/

None of the pesticides, organic fertilisers, no need to clear wildlife etc, it can be done in another way.

But even the way it is done now is better for the environment because of how bad dairy- even local and grass fed- is.

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.511.7351&rep=rep1&type=pdf

“Livestock production—including deforestation for grazing land and soy-feed production, soil carbon loss in grazing lands, the energy used in growing feed-grains and in processing and transporting grains and meat, nitrous oxide releases from the use of nitrogenous fertilisers, and gases from animal manure (especially methane) and enteric fermentation44—accounts for about 18% of global greenhouse-gas emissions (figure 2).42 This estimate consists of around 9% of global emissions of carbon dioxide, plus 35–40% of methane emissions and 65% of nitrous oxide, both of which have much greater near-term warming potential over several ensuing decades than does carbon doxide (although they have shorter half-lives in the atmosphere). Similar estimates exist of the contributions of UK farming, live-stock production, and the food chain overall, to national greenhouse-gas emissions.”

pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es702969f

“Thus, we suggest that dietary shift can be a more effective means of lowering an average household’s food-related climate footprint than “buying local.” Shifting less than one day per week’s worth of calories from red meat and dairy products to chicken, fish, eggs, or a vegetable-based diet achieves more GHG reduction than buying all locally sourced food.”

www.futureoffood.ox.ac.uk/grazed-and-confused

“This report concludes that grass-fed livestock are not a climate solution. Grazing livestock are net contributors to the climate problem, as are all livestock. Rising animal production and consumption, whatever the farming system and animal type, is causing damaging greenhouse gas release and contributing to changes in land use. Ultimately, if high consuming individuals and countries want to do something positive for the climate, maintaining their current consumption levels but simply switching to grass-fed beef is not a solution. Eating less meat, of all types, is.”

DoodleLab · 05/02/2019 11:43

Kiki

How much wildlife do you think is killed to produce this (see image)?

All the deer, rabbits, field mice, birds, bees, earthworms, beetles, tiny bugs living in the field and in the soil are killed by the tractors/harvesters, plus huge applications of fertiliser (fossil fuel based), pesticides (organic or the non organic chemical shit storm kind... the result is the same... KILLS PESTS), insecticides... kills also bees which are an essential cornerstone of any ecosystem, chemical run offs into the river systems... kills fish and aquatic creatures, either through eutrophication or chemical toxicity. How very vegan Hmm

The fact is that a vegan monocultural diet has a far higher "himsa" (word for suffering in Sanskrit) footprint than a local, organic, grassfed, integrated polycultural animal based/mixed meat & vegetable diet.

It is industrial farming per se which is destroying the planet (BOTH meat and plant production). Not animal farming in and of itself.

I am totally with you with regard to intensive, industrial factory farms... they are an abomination, but vegans do not realise the nuance around the fact that industrial plant farming is just as awful for the planet... huge fossil fuel inputs and it destroys top soil. It is estimated that we only have a few decades of top soil left... ever. Basically, you either fertilise the soil with fossil fuels, or you fertilise it with animal dung in a holistic rotation system. Any notions of veganic composting systems won't even begin to tickle the sides of what we need to maintain soil fertility and prevent erosion and desertification.

Please look up the work of Joel Salatin in Virginia and Isabella Tree in Sussex (Gdn article in previous post) to see how a model of good integrated mixed farming works... for communities, for thriving wildlife, for high quality nourishing food.

Please see second pic of Isabella Tree's land in Sussex in contrast to pic one (soya monoculture). I think the impact of those two contrasting farming systems speak for themselves.

Which plant 'milk'?
Which plant 'milk'?
kikisparks · 05/02/2019 11:56

@DoodleLab look up stock free farming. The things you are talking about don’t have to be the case to grow plants. veganorganic.net As more people go vegan there will be more demand for this and more ethical farming practices.

Animal farming on the other hand can never be ethical.

In any event if we all went vegan we would need significantly less monocultures as most soya crop etc are fed to animals. If we all went vegan over the next couple of decades we could use substantially less farmland and focus on rewilding much of the extra land that is freed up.

anxiousbundle · 05/02/2019 12:06

Koko dairy free coconut milk!😋 amazing on cereal, on its own and in coffee.

Can't stand any of the Alpo brand milks- soya and almond make me 🤢🤢

amusedbush · 05/02/2019 12:16

Cashew milk is the only dairy alternative I like and I've tried all of them! Soya, almond and hazelnut are disgusting in coffee but cashew is lovely, it froths up nicely if you want a latte and it's nice in porridge.

DGRossetti · 05/02/2019 13:31

Hemp milk is lovely.

Vintagegoth · 05/02/2019 13:40

Depending on the age of your DS there are lots of options. If he is under 5 you should be aware of the oestrogenic effects of soya and the arsenic levels in rice milk. All non dairy milks are less nutritious than cows milk as they have fewer calories and need to be fortified to provide calcium. Do check the labels to ensure a balanced diet.

As for me ,I always enjoyed the koko dairy free coconut milk in my tea and on cereal.

AliyyaJann · 05/02/2019 16:40

How do you get rid of the rubbery taste in cashew milk?

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