Do your DD's friends talk to you?!

[danceyourselfsilly]

AIBU? Don't quite know what kind of reaction I will get posting this but I guess I just need to...
DD (14) has a friend (13 )who visits us every few weeks or couple of months - she lives a little way away now so she comes and stays the weekend. Over the past 3 years she has come with us on many days out, on holiday with us for a week, always been paid for, taken part in lots of activities at weekends, on holidays, been well fed and looked after etc etc. My daughter is an only child so it is nice for her to have company roughly her own age. I like to think I am pretty generous except her friend will never speak to me. The most I ever get out of her is either yes or no if I ask her a question and then it is rather begrudged or she looks like she would rather do anything than talk to me. She is "shy" but it is really annoying me that she has known me 3 years and I have looked after her like a daughter and she can't seem to speak to me and often doesn't even say thank you when I take her home. She also never brings any "pocket money" or anything either and so my daughter will often share hers with her and that annoys me too. I want to say something to the friend about this but I don't know how. I have tried to say something like "bring some money with you next weekend you because you may want to go swimming or into town etc etc?" but invariably when she turns up it's always "I forgot" to bring any and so I have given up but I am getting a bit resentful now I suppose. I know it might seem like I am a complete wimp but my DD has problems keeping friends at school, lacks confidence and is too "scared" to invite anyone else home it seems - despite lots and lots of prompting by me. She will occasionally go to a party or a sleepover and I always send her with money and or treats depending on the occasion and drill into her about a hundred times about saying thankyou!!

Two separate issues here which shouldn't be confused.

One. She's shy. Many teenagers and children are. I was like that myself...it's due to being in an agony of self-doubt and insecurity.

Don't judge her.

Two: No money. That's her parent's fault not hers. Don't "bring it up with her" for God's sake. She's a child and can't control her income.

If your DD gains a lot from these visits because she has problems keeping friends at school, then I personally would think "Well, in for a penny and in for a pound...it's helping DD so I'm happy"

It would make the girl feel terrible to be asked about money...don't do that.

Agree with both Fortunes' points.

The money issue is definitely not her fault, it's her parents. Anyone with any cop on sends their kid to things like this with their own money. If that's not happening, it's not the child's fault.

I was also painfully shy when I was younger, and dread to think how I possibly came steps to some parents.

*came across

ok thanks - you're right
I was taking it all too personally - it's just that if I say would you like a drink or something to eat she won't answer me - my daughter asks her the question and then she speaks - its like having an interpeter. I guess I was probably like that too its just so long ago now I can't remember. Can I just ask you - who did you like talking to ie how could I try to get her to "talk" a bit? I did ask her about her sister a couple of questions (like where does she work what does she do at college now etc) and she said she didn't know. I guess I am expecting too much. If someone had asked me what my older sister was studying at college at that age I probably would have said the same! Re the money thing I didn't ask her directly I asked my DD to ask her to bring some so it sounded more casual if you see what I mean. I told her to say "bring some money in case we want to go into town" I'm not talking about her bringing a lot of money you understand its just a small contribution - but you are absolutely right its the parents fault not hers.

dd's friends always talk to me, but some of them do assume I will pay for everything. I just make sure I choose activities that I can afford to pay for two.
Does your dd ever go the friend?

Hi Hugo - I guess its the assumption that gets to you eventually.
In the past we have had friends who let me buy everything and then right at the end go to the shop and buy themselves something they don't share with the money they secretly had! However I know I am sounding a complete b@@@h here because they are only kids so they probably don't get given money all that often and they are not doing it deliberately to annoy me! Yes DD does occasionally go there and I know the Mum is hard up but then so am I. Just needed to vent

I have three Adult DDs and they've varied.

I'd have a chat with your DD about how she manages in school etc. Are her Parents overly strict and ask if she's ever asked her why she won't answer you.

There could be real reasons why she doesn't speak to you directly, but tbh, over the next year it needs to change.

One of my DDs is Autistic and I had to teach her how/when to respond etc, because it's a life skill.

She should be comfortable with you by now and it shows real issues if she won't even answer you. Her Parents should have addressed them with you.

Likewise her Parents should be asking you if she needs anything/money.

If it's them that's the issue, it would be a shame to spoil this friendship for the Girl, she probably really needs it.

Hi Birdsgottafly I think that I am worried for her underneath my impatience because I feel that she does have a problem and although I am taking it personally at the bottom of it I am concerned.
I have also wondered if her DM tells her not to tell anyone anything - there is family history of several break ups with different partners, different fathers, lots of acrimony, court cases, social services involvement etc. DM is quite a bit younger than me and really nice but she makes it clear she doesn't want to be friends with me in the nicest possible way

It is sheer bad manners, she may be shy but there's a difference between shy and rude, at her age this is rude, but she may be also feel self-conscious because of the money issue. Poor girl, it is hard but she is old enough to engage in civilised conversation with a friend's mother!
I should be appalled were any of my children's friends to be like that, they are all teenagers and older now but only about one has ever been so rude.

there's a difference between shy and rude, at her age

Tell that to children with anxiety disorders. I'm sure they will feel much better.

My youngest son has a friend who practically lives at our house. All weekends, most of the holidays etc. I buy him stuff, (days out, fishing tackle, pizza etc). He is smaller than my son and so I give him his clothes when he grows out of them and he wears them a lot. He comes from a house where no adults work and there are many children.

He is a sweet boy, but also has terrible manners. Never says thank you, or thank you for having me or anything. Similarly I NEVER EVER hear from his mother, apart from once when our boys fell out briefly and my son swore at hers and she was "outraged".

Its not the boy's fault, its crappy parenting as far as I can see.

Surely if she had an anxiety disorder so bad that she can't speak to the OP, she wouldn't be spending extended periods of time at the OP's house? It probably is down to being unparented, but at 13 she is old enough to see that there are other ways of behaving.

Perhaps her home life isn't very nice if she is afraid to speak to you and isn't doesn't have any money...

I think it is a combination. 5 children ranging from baby to 19 I think and a single mother with a few exes so life is often chaotic and disappointing. Never had dance lessons or music lessons or anything like that. Priority is on the youngest always. I am feeling quite differently since my first post. I went outside to tidy up a bit and remembered the time we took her to a stately home (surely another thread :)! anyway she was so interested and engaged it was lovely - don't think she'd ever been anywhere like that before. Now they are teens we haven't done that for a while because my own DD just rolls her eyes at me and groans if I suggest anything but I should insist and get them off their bloomin phones and non verbal communication!
I also remembered something from my own teens (a very long time ago!) I don't remember going on lots of sleepovers but I remember once going to my friend's house and I must have been in the bedroom while her Mum and my friend made up the bed for me. Her Mum said to me in a rather irritated voice - "we all muck in in this house! " Taught me a lesson! Teenagers are just are not aware of their behavioiur and how it comes across and sometimes yes, they do need to be told by an adult who is not a parent or a teacher.

Madam you're obviously not familiar with anxiety disorders.

Maybe these anxiety disorders are not so prevalent in France? Or present différently? We all have it drummed into us that we say hello to everybody and shake hands or kiss them when we see them, so for us greeting is normal and reassuring - not greeting or acknowledging someone is really bad and just doesn't happen. But cultural norms differ obviously.

Madam I knew a French family whose children barely looked at visitors. It's not a nationwide characteristic you know. Saying "Oh French people do this..." is like saying all English people do something the same.

Of course they don't.

They would be labelled mal-élevés then, we really judge people who don't say hello at least and especially people who neglect their children by not teaching them. Of course there are people who are rude but as I say we judge them, we may not say anything but we deconsider them. British people often think we are nasty because we aren't nice when someone comes into a shop and doesn't say hello, or orders in a café without saying hello first. The point is that if you don't say hello, you put yourself outside the frame and will be labelled the awful person, so people won't be nice to you.

Madam Judge away! People with children who suffer from anxiety disorders don't give a shiny shite about some random person judging them for not saying hello.

She not answering you sounds very strange to me. This is not normal for a 13 year old. I absolutely agree that very shy people of that age might not initiate conversation or join in with general conversation but to not answer a direct question raises question marks with me. What will happen in a few years when she needs to go out into the world if she can't communicate? She might need information about something, she buys something and has a question or even has to and get a job? How does she behave at school?
Something is amiss here.

The child is 13, she has spent a lot of time with the OP; not answering a direct simple question (would you like a drink?), is just rude, not shy or justified by social anxiety. Too much poor behaviour is justified by sticking a label on it. At this stage in the the relationship (or actually before this) I would be helping the child by instilling some manners and life skills. There would be nothing wrong in saying gently 'could you answer me please Mary'.
And before anyone flames me with I don't know what I'm talking about, I do; I've worked with disadvantaged and special needs children and many have to be specifically taught manners and social interaction as they can't learn by observation as most children do.
The pocket money is a different issue, and not down to her.

ref the money, if her parents are very hard up she perhaps doesn't feel comfortable with asking them for money she knows they don't have.