Is it still rape? *Sensitive issue*

[keepingthesail]

Sister in law and I are debating if it's still statutory rape if you deliberately deceive someone in a certain way.

For example, at 15, I was allowed into a nightclub (18+). I didn't just look a lot older, I came across as a lot older. I didn't look older because of a short skirt etc. I probably looked a little more conservative (I use the term loosely), than was the norm. I look at pictures as a grown woman and see I could easily pass for 25+.

I met someone that evening. I slept with him. He did text a few times but I deleted his number and just forgot about it. I wasn't interested.

I know people will argue that's bullshit. But it's true. I never did get on well with people of my own age. I only really got on with people of my own age now I'm an adult well into baby making and marriage years.

So, what is the MN verdict? Should he be charged with a rape charge if I came out and told everyone what happened? I told him I was 19. He was shocked and thought I was even older than that.

A rape charge? I think that would be extremely unfair.

What is the point of this thread?

Statutory rape does not exist in the UK.

Rape due to lack of consent because the person was under 16 and therefore unable to consent is applied when the under 16 year old is unable to consent or has been taken advantaged if in a way that makes them unable to give informed consent.

If something is legally OK and moral OK are two different things.

raven to understand if a very real life event I experienced would've been classed as rape?

What do you mean by statutory rape? That is not a term used in British law. I think because you were over the age of 13, there could be other charges, but I do not think U.K. law would charge him with rape.

I wasn't aware UK law didn't charge for this. Apologies.

I thought statutory rape was a British thing too.

Terrible comparison but I briefly remember someone telling me a young lad from Eastender's was on the register because someone he believed to be older was only 14

I’m not sure why anyone would claim that it’s bullshit. Lots of 15 year olds are having sex with men who are older.

As I understand it, prosecution is only considered if there are aggravating factors, or if the older person was in a position of authority.

Sorry pressed send too fast!

Is this something you are worried about? Do you wish it hadn’t happened? It’s obviously playing on your mind to bring it up, so is there more to your concern than the hypothetical legal position?

Namechange I may be wrong but I'm sure I've seen lots of people on here screaming that no man could possibly mistake a girl's age, and 'that they knew deep down they were younger than they said'

Name Nothing about it bothers me. I had a nice night! That was that.

The talk came about because of originally debating if it was morally wrong of an 18 year old man to get a 13 year old pregnant. I think it's wrong.

But apparently it's fine, as they're a very popular family by all accounts

Oh I wouldn’t be surprised by that! I don’t think it’s right though. I don’t think men have an infallible sense of exact age! Maybe I’m underestimating them...

Statutory rape is legally enforceable in the UK as the legal age of consent in the UK is 16 and the ages of 15 and below are considered not legally able to consent.

www.ageofconsent.net/world/united-kingdom

That being said, someone who would have gone out of their way to deceive another person into believing they are older and specifying they are 19 would likely not be taken seriously if they decided years later they shouldn't have consented.

Turn the situation around maybe and say you met someone, believing he was over 18, had sex with him and later found he was 15...would you at that point feel that you were deceived into having sex with a person that, if in possession of all of the facts, you would never have considered having sex with? He would potentially be seen as a predator as he lied to get what he wanted with no second thought of the potential illegality of the act he had duped you into.

I wouldn't consider it rape. I don't understand why you would be trying to convince yourself that it is.

Ohhh yes I haven’t read those threads yet but of course I know who you mean. I think there is a difference between 13 and 15 (well there was for me) but I know other people will have very different views.

Glad it’s not upsetting you though.

It says “statutory rape or the equivalent local law” though, and surely statutory rape isn’t a thing under UK law?

I wouldn't consider it rape. I don't understand why you would be trying to convince yourself that it is.

Bloody hell, I think you're misreading my posts.

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear, but I don't think what happened to me was rape. Not at all.

I just wondered if it was technically considered to be in a court of law

I think some adult men are quick to believe a child is over 16 because they know if she's dressing and looking like an adult then they are more likely to be believed when they say she said was older.

The man you slept with may have genuinely thought you were an adult but I find that even though many young teenage girls look like an adult you can usually tell they aren't when you interact with them.

Many male children look over 16, but you don't seem to hear anywhere near as much cases about adult women accidentally having sex with a child and when it does people very rarely believe her when she says she thought he was also an adult.

I dunno what I'm trying to say other than some men seem very eager to be convinced the person he wants to fuck is old enough because they want sex, not all, but some.

I don't think that he would be charged with rape. You told him you were 19 and he had no reason to disbelieve you, you both consented to sex, and he had reasonable cause to believe you were at least 18 since you were in an 18+ establishment.

The only way he would possibly be charged with rape is if you considered it to be so (and a judge agreed) and since you don't, it seems like a moot point.

Well you said you told him you was older, you said you was in a club for 18+ age. You said you had a nice night, you decieved him with your age and now you are wondering if that could be classed as rape? What about the guy who was lied to and decieved into thinking you was above the age of consent who didn't knowingly sleep with an underage person. I may get flamed for my response but it's not him who has lied here. And knowing personally victims of rape I found this unreasonable. Where as if he knowingly slept with you knowing you was underage I would say differently. Btw I am not saying people should be allowed to sleep with anyone underage. I personally wouldn't say it was rape as you was the one who lied you was the one who was somewhere you shouldn't of been at that age. And you just said you had a nice night so how does that end with wondering if it's rape? At 15 maybe you shouldn't of been drinking alcohol in clubs lying about your age and pulling older men. If you think it was rape then report it but I would also add again to the fact you said you lied. No offence meant by my post btw x

You might find this judgment interesting.

www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/8/1754/HMA-v-Daniel-Cieslak

A fifteen year old might look 19, but no 13yr old does. Maybe in a posed photo slathered in makeup, but not up close, and not in the way they act (I also doubt that you looked 25 in the flesh).

The 13/18yr old discussed on other threads was a long term relationship - I don’t think many 13yr olds would be able to convince anyone they were 19 over a period of weeks/months either. It’s the “long term relationship with a pubescent child when you are 18” and all the power imbalances that come with that, that people are objecting to. What on earth does an eighteen year old have in common with a thirteen year old? It’s a parental relationship, not a partnership of equals.

An 18yo sleeping with a 13yo is child abuser.

A man sleeping with someone who has lied about their age and the man himself does not doubt the age he is being told is just a man who was misled. It is possible that he would subsequently feel disgusted with himself if he then found out about the real age. But of he was led to believe and genuinely did believe that the woman was above 16yo then he isn't a rapist.

Technically you can't consent under 16 but this happens all the time and would be rare if something came of it. Only if the man was famous and the girl was going to papers would anyone really take an interest.

The relevant law in England is the Sexual Offences Act 2003.

The most relevant offence is likely to be "Sexual activity with a child". Your consent is not relevant, but if the man reasonably believed you were over 16 then no offence has been committed. The burden of proof would be on the prosecution to prove that the man did not reasonably believe you were old enough.

Legally yes it is.

And TBH I have no sympathy for men 'trapped' this way - I mean it's like the thought of getting to know someone before using them as a wank sock is beyond their comprehension. And I don't think we should worry too much about men when it comes to this, it would just mean rapists use it as an excuse - "well I thought she was 20!".

Only if the man was famous and the girl was going to papers would anyone really take an interest.

Or if the parents pressed charges.

Parents can’t press charges in the UK. They can raise a complaint with the police but it is the CPS who press charges.