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Original poster

UniTutors/Professors I have an ethical dilemma for you!

35 replies

BloodyConscience · 02/01/2019 15:40

I am a mature student and in one class I have been struggling. I am supposed to write a paper that will make up the entirety of my grade. I'm struggling with this kind of paper. It's the only bloody time I will need to write it in uni as far as I know and I was struggling with child sickness and child care to make all my seminars. The class is over now and I'm just afraid I will fuck it up massively.

I thought I could send a rough draft to one of these online tutors and have them give me some feedback (projected grade) and pointers on where I am going wrong.

I wrote to two and one has said it wasn't ethical and likened it to plagiarism. She was very polite and didn't quite say it like that until I asked her to elaborate. I asked as I obviously don't want to do anything that will leave me on dodgy ground. One has offered to help me though.

I only saw it as someone tutoring me and help I might have got if I had been able to attend office hours or more seminars.

I won't do it if it's shaky morally. I really didn't think it was.

Thank you in advance.

OP posts:
GCAcademic · 02/01/2019 15:45

help I might have got if I had been able to attend office hours or more seminars.

Would your tutors really read and provide feedback on drafts? We don't do this, out of principle, where I work. You would be being graded on work that has effectively already been assessed. The most we'll do is discuss an essay plan.

Walkingthroughawall · 02/01/2019 15:46

Why not discuss it with your actual tutor...it’s what they’re there for.
Good luck!

mumtomaxwell · 02/01/2019 15:46

Could you ask your own actual tutor for that class? Bit different for me as I’m a secondary teacher but my students do that all the time!

Not sure why that tutor said it was plagiarism?? Assume you didn’t ask her to write it for you?!

GCAcademic · 02/01/2019 15:49

It wouldn't be plagiarism, it would be collusion, which is also classed as academic misconduct.

PoptartPoptart · 02/01/2019 15:50

Does your uni not have a student support department?
The uni I go have a student services department and are more than happy to have a look at draft work and make suggestions. It’s not plagiarism if you have written it yourself and it’s not cheating. They don’t tell you what to write, they just point you in the right direction and make suggestions.
Maybe ask if your uni offers a similar support service.

amusedbush · 02/01/2019 15:51

I work in a university and none of our academics would look over work and give pointers. It is ethically dubious and gives advantage to one student over the rest of the cohort.

I’m also completing my Masters via a different university and people on my course have complained in our WhatsApp group that the tutors have refused similar requests. Personally it wouldn’t even occur to me to ask, if simply for the fact that academic staff just don’t have the time to do this for everyone!

PoptartPoptart · 02/01/2019 15:52

Oh and I meant to say, the student support department isn’t run by the course lecturers. They don’t mark or assess your work, just make helpful suggestions.

Original poster
BloodyConscience · 02/01/2019 15:54

Would your tutors really read and provide feedback on drafts? We don't do this, out of principle, where I work. You would be being graded on work that has effectively already been assessed. The most we'll do is discuss an essay plan.

There was an option to do a practice one that I literally didn't have time for that would have had feedback on. It was on the same topic that I could then elaborate to the current essay.

^Why not discuss it with your actual tutor...it’s what they’re there for.
Good luck!^

The class has officially ended and I still don't actually have the time or child care to physically get to my tutor, unfortunately.

Not sure why that tutor said it was plagiarism?? Assume you didn’t ask her to write it for you?!

No, I definitely didn't suggest that in any shape or form! Pretty much said exactly as in my OP. I think she felt helping me in that way would be akin to plagiarism.

I'm also scared to aks if it is OK from the uni because I now feel like it might be seen as me buying an essay and I'll be viewed with suspicion. I really didn't see any issue and I assumed it was something people do with regards to proof reading and stuff generally (although I've never done it myself)

OP posts:
Original poster
BloodyConscience · 02/01/2019 15:56

It wouldn't be plagiarism, it would be collusion, which is also classed as academic misconduct.

Well, that's that then. :(

^Does your uni not have a student support department?
The uni I go have a student services department and are more than happy to have a look at draft work and make suggestions. It’s not plagiarism if you have written it yourself and it’s not cheating. They don’t tell you what to write, they just point you in the right direction and make suggestions.
Maybe ask if your uni offers a similar support service.^

Kids are still off school and the uni is closed for holidays so I don't think I'd get any help even if I could get there.

OP posts:
LadyLance · 02/01/2019 15:57

I agree, you'd be best to try student support or perhaps your library services, who can give you help and feedback.

If someone is marking a paper (even as a second marker) and has already looked over a draft, then it will bias their marking and not be fair/comparable to other students.

I've only ever been allowed to submit a draft at uni if it's an opportunity open to everyone- so e.g. my first PGCE assignment, we were all invited to submit a partial draft to check we are along the right lines as obviously a lot of people have been out of academia for a while and then being thrown into a masters level assignment!

Ethel80 · 02/01/2019 15:59

Ours would be happy look at a plan or one page of a draft and no more.

I found booking private or small group tutorials was really helpful but go there with notes, plan etc as they're not going to just tell you what to write.

LisaSimpsonsbff · 02/01/2019 15:59

What do you mean 'one of these online tutors'? Do you mean one of your course tutors (in which case I'm a bit surprised one has offered to read it, but if they have then fine) or a random person unaffiliated with your university? If the latter then I don't think it's any more unethical than getting one of your course mates to read it, as long as this person doesn't write any of it, but it's not likely to be any more helpful, either - if this isn't someone who works at your university I'd be careful of taking their advice on anything other than absolute basics like grammar - even advice on good essay style differs so much across subjects and institutions that they could give you well-meaning but useless advice.

Original poster
BloodyConscience · 02/01/2019 15:59

I've only ever been allowed to submit a draft at uni if it's an opportunity open to everyone- so e.g. my first PGCE assignment, we were all invited to submit a partial draft to check we are along the right lines as obviously a lot of people have been out of academia for a while and then being thrown into a masters level assignment!

Yes, we were given this option for this essay, unfortunately I didn't have time to do the first draft. Oh well. I will just have to hope for the best.

OP posts:
SarahAndQuack · 02/01/2019 16:02

Just talk to them about it!

It sounds as if what you need isn't so much help with this paper, as better general support. Do they know you've had difficulties that stopped you getting to class? Your course leader ought to be informed, and you ought to see if any allowances can be made (eg., perhaps an extension to the deadline).

If you're carrying on with studying, be aware that it's always best to raise things as early as possible, and to make sure you ask the person with authority to do something. If I had a student who had unforeseen circumstances such as a sick child, I'd expect to apply for some kind of support on their behalf, if possible. Not all universities will have the same rules about this sort of thing, but often, there will be a possibility for support.

Don't leave it until you've already missed the time.

But otherwise, yes, I would imagine they can't read your paper because there will be rules about when and how much they can interact with each student, just to make sure it's fair. I wouldn't personally have called in plagiarism or collusion, though.

LisaSimpsonsbff · 02/01/2019 16:02

The class has officially ended and I still don't actually have the time or child care to physically get to my tutor, unfortunately.

Have you tried emailing them? They might not be willing to help, or they may not be allowed to at this stage, but they might be sympathetic and offer at least some general pointers if you explain the childcare situation. When is the deadline? If you're going to email do it ASAP - there's nothing more dispiriting than the student who suddenly appears wanting a load of help the day before the deadline.

Original poster
BloodyConscience · 02/01/2019 16:03

What do you mean 'one of these online tutors'

There's a website and you pay per hour for tuition either in rl or online for professional tutors in different fields. Supposedly they are vetted and they have to show their credentials. It's unrelated to my university.

or a random person unaffiliated with your university? If the latter then I don't think it's any more unethical than getting one of your course mates to read it

That was how I saw it. I also don't have any friends or family who can lend me a hand that way and don't get to spend any time with the other students due to them being young and having a life...

OP posts:
Original poster
BloodyConscience · 02/01/2019 16:05

Have you tried emailing them? They might not be willing to help, or they may not be allowed to at this stage, but they might be sympathetic and offer at least some general pointers if you explain the childcare situation. When is the deadline? If you're going to email do it ASAP - there's nothing more dispiriting than the student who suddenly appears wanting a load of help the day before the deadline.

I don't tend to hear back from this person and I struggle with their teaching generally. I think they'd probably feel I should have done the first practice essay as well, which is a fair point and in different circumstances I would have done.

OP posts:
FormerlyFrikadela01 · 02/01/2019 16:05

I'm surprised so many are saying submitting drafts aren't allowed. I've been to 2 different universities and bith had a system for academic supervision where for each assignment you were assigned a supervisor (not the final marker) and could submit 500 words and have a 30 minute meeting. We were encouraged to submit the essay plan rather than a chunk of the essay. It wasn't marked but pointer were given to make sure we were on the right track.

GreyCloudsToday · 02/01/2019 16:05

Can you tell us what you're struggling with? Is it the content of the course itself or something more generic that we could possibly advise on (e.g. essay structure)? There will be many helpful books in your library on how to write an essay- check if any of these are available online if you're struggling to travel to uni. Peer feedback is usually encouraged- can you meet a friend on the same course and go through each others' drafts?

BradleyPooper · 02/01/2019 16:06

Email your tutor and ask if you can set a time for a phone call. I worked in a UK until for years and course leaders were at work (and certainly on email) outside of term times. Pretty much all the management worked year round too, library was open, sports center was open advisory services were open - not sure why the uni would be closed outside of lecturing weeks....

SarahAndQuack · 02/01/2019 16:07

Seriously, you'd be much better off emailing the course leader than going for an online site. I bet it's dodgy as fuck, TBH - half of them are. Having a PhD doesn't automatically make you an ethical person, or any good at giving advice specific to a course you've never taught.

There's nothing wrong with asking someone to read your essay; if you fancy risking a waste of money I guess you could use online tutoring, though I'm not sure how the university would see it if they found out (they might have rules about it). But realistically, you're wasting your time if you don't talk to the actual people who are paid to teach and organise this course. Do you have an email for the course leader, or for a personal tutor? Chances are they are checking email, even if the student support department is shut today.

BradleyPooper · 02/01/2019 16:08

Just read that you don't tend to hear back from this lecturer - if this is the case, contact your course leader, explain that you're struggling and that you haven't heard back, understand that the lecturer is taking a well earned break over the holidays but you are concerned about passing the course and would appreciate an hour of his / her time.

Original poster
BloodyConscience · 02/01/2019 16:10

It sounds as if what you need isn't so much help with this paper, as better general support. Do they know you've had difficulties that stopped you getting to class? Your course leader ought to be informed, and you ought to see if any allowances can be made (eg., perhaps an extension to the deadline).

They have been very good about scheduling my seminars around childcare and they don't give me any hassle about not attending lectures and viewing them online instead. I can't really expect extension deadlines as well I guess. Child sickness was down to me and the kids all getting ill in succession rather than one really sick child.

OP posts:
SarahAndQuack · 02/01/2019 16:10

formerly, it's not surprising; it just varies hugely between universities and from subject to subject. There should be a MA handbook available online somewhere, which ought to have details explaining how much supervision or feedback is expected, and when it will be delivered.

It does slightly bother me that the OP has two tutors offering different advice. Clearly at least one of them is confused about the rules, so it's worth checking with someone with more authority (or with the handbook). After all, OP, you'll feel dead silly if it turns out the tutor who turned you down was wrong and you were entitled to some feedback all along!

SarahAndQuack · 02/01/2019 16:11

I can't really expect extension deadlines as well I guess.

No, you can't expect it but you can definitely ask about it! The worst they can do is say no. It's not them being 'good' to let you get lectures online - if lectures are made available that way it's precisely what you should be doing and what they should be supporting.