When did Santa over take Father Christmas?

[ChesterGreySideboard]

No judgement on using either but when I was little (70s) Father Christmas was the most common name and Santa was not often heard.
Now it seems to be the other way round.
I’ve heard this at the school I work in and most people on MN seem to use Santa.
Even Santa Claus seems to have gone out of fashion.

Santa isn’t exactly secular!

Quite, but I think Father Christmas is more so. As said before he is more a Green Man figure. He used to be in green rather than red I believe.
Look at the spirit of Christmas present here.

Reasonable English people suggest that the change IN ENGLAND is due to the influence of american culture but acknowledge that other parts of the Uk are different.

Exactly this. It isn’t an Americanism as such, but the spread of it in parts of the country where it traditionally been FC is due to the influence of American films and YouTube rather than Scottish and Irish culture.

I have to say I feel better with my kids using Santa rather than the correct Father Christmas knowing it has come from Scotland/Ireland rather than America.

I understand the red coat is fairly late tradition for Santa as well - the current version of Santa jolly old man in red coat is often attributed to 1930 coco cola campaign. 1920 campaigns had a variety of coat colours – though not green.

I like the historical Christmas programs on BBC – - I watched the Tudor Farm Christmas one few nights ago - the Holly and Ivy carol and the holly crown make more sense now.

I thought the Santa/Father Christmas thing was because of the merging of two traditions. Father Christmas comes from the Norse tradition (a jolly elf with reindeer) and the southern European tradition of Saint Nicholas etc.

@ChesterGreySideboard

I was referring to a PP who said Santa is more secular. I don’t dispute the fact that out of the two FC is the more Secular and I am aware of the history of FC and the Green Man. The red and white coat is usually attributed to Coca Cola’s early Christmas campaign.

We are Christian so all the more reason to stick with Santa Claus or even St Nicholas in our home.

Always FC in my house growing up - DD is 7 and I try to police it here as I prefer FC to Santa and I even used to edit her picture books when they said Santa. I need to get a life But it's crept in via nursery and school. Ho ho ho hum!

Norse tradition (a jolly elf with reindeer)

Not hear of that one - woden on a wild hunt being mixed up with Germanic yule festival I have heard of – I wonder if it’s related.

Apparently St Nick was upgraded from a horse and cart to horse to reindeer and sleigh at some point - then early 1800s came that poem - night before Christmas whoch mentions 12 then 1930s Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer appears.

Roman Festival of Saturnalia - apparently having holly is related to this as well as pre -roman tradition of bringing greenery in.

There a real mishmash of traditions around Christmas I suppose it’s the same with Easter and Halloween.

My mum's Scottish so it was always Santa at our house. FC must be an English thing.

NI here and always Santa (mid 30s) my dm Santa, df Santa (Scottish), both in their mid 60s, dh Santa Claus (older parents).

Yes to the PP go said that even though it’s always been Santa in NI and Scotland the way it’s taken over in England is most likely because of the use of Santa in all US Christmas films. I find that a bit sad. I like the Englishness of Father Christmas.

DH and I are both thirties and English - my parents are southern, his are from Yorkshire. We were both very much ‘Father Christmas’ growing up - both with family and friends. We only really knew Santa from American films.

DS is three and growing up in southern England. We’re persistant with Father Christmas but fighting a losing battle - Santa is everywhere now! I think that in another 30 years time, FC may be nearing extinction, which would be a shame.