Employer holding back tips.

[madmum5811]

A pub restaurant chain - our unit was told a fortnight ago, they would not issue our tips or let us have a xmas party unless we reached our targets over xmas. Now they have reneged on the xmas party two years previously. So is this legal, can they withhold our tips if we do not reach the company set targets. Or as some say it is the manager fiddling us. We have issues with our hours every month and caught one manager fiddling shifts by reducing them a couple of hours here and there soon mount up.

So what do we do. This does not seem fair, we work so hard on party nights, I am talking a 200 plus cover restaurant, overlooking a marina where some folk are quaffing champagne like water, so we are not in a poor area.

I am asking on behalf of my daughter who really could do with the tip money at xmas. She is not bothered about a mythical post xmas party which never happens anyway she says.

Are these cash tips or tips added to card payments?

My ds has similar issues. His tips are being used to cover till shortages due to boss's family eating and not paying!!
Maybe email head office to check if this is the correct procedure?

Cannot e mail head office, the manager is buddy, buddy, with the owner director. This could be happening across the company.

It is a mixture of card payments and cash, which goes into a jar.

It is a family business, but a big one.

"owning around 260 tenanted and managed pubs, inns and hotels across the North West, "

Well if they don't give you the tips they have to pay tax on them not you. If a business is doing something dodgy HMRC are usually interested.

Your employer should have a written policy and this should also be part of your contract.

Cannot e mail head office, the manager is buddy, buddy, with the owner director.

In which case, you're stuck. Seriously, what else can you expect us to suggest you do? If you're not prepared to complain to the head office, there's not going to be any other remedy.

Except, as PP says, getting HMRC to investigate. But that isn't likely to solve the issue - not in the short term, anyway.

Not in the contract, we have checked. I did suggest to DD she should contact ACAS.

It is certainly not in the contract for the manager to knock off six or more hours a month on the sly surely??? Then when you argue the point, you get directed to the company, who direct you to HR, who then direct you back to the manager who robbed you.!!

That tells you what the company is like. So the only option is to cut her losses and find a reputable employer.

Oh dear so it is not illegal to rob staff of their hours, or their tips. That will be a downer for her. I will pass on your advice everyone, many thanks for the clarification.

It's not about whether it's illegal or not, it's about how you DEAL with it! Your first step is always, always, raise a proper grievance with the company with the necessary proof. If they won't deal with it, then, your next step is a union if your daughter belongs to one. I assume she isn't, or there isn't one. What complaints procedures are outlined in her contract and/or staff handbook? Has she followed them? If you aren't happy with HR response then you go higher but apparently you won't do that because you think nothing will get done because the manager and owner are chums. You may be right.

You have to be realistic and ask what you want as an outcome and what is achievable. Because, wrong though it may be, illegal though it may be, reporting them to HMRC isn't going to get your daughter those tips before Xmas. The Police aren't going to get involved unless it's major fraud you can prove and again, it's not going to get your daughter her tips before Xmas.

It may not be fair but that's the way it is.

Maybe suggest she whispers to any tippers not to bother as the boss keeps it? Maybe a customer may quote it on a review?

It is hard when on the one hand the management tell them they are the best performing pub/restaurant in the group, then set the bar even higher. The staff have no control over how many people book tables. They do not do the menus, choose the beers, market the company.

Sounds like a disgraceful company. I would just leave as soon as possible, cause as much shit for the company with HMRC etc if possible, and in the meantime trouser any tips secretly where I could.

She works in a tourist area so is lucky to be employed all the year round. Most jobs vanish after xmas. The shifts are going to be reduced in Jan. Feb. anyway. Do you really think HMRC would be interested? I did wonder about ACAS

Name and shame on social media?

Name and shame only works if you are going to find another job. We are talking about a big company here. How would she get a reference??

If hours are deducted, does her pay for her hours worked dip below minimum wage?

No ideas on the legality front but on thr name and shame front social media is anonymous, so someone else or a fake account could ask Robinson brewery withhold tips people presume are going to staff.

They are all on minimum wage just a jot to start with.

Bloody hell Carrot you are a clever one.

I googled your quote above about how many pubs, comes up as the first hit!

Their policy's are laughable if they are knocking off hours taking staff under minimum wage!

Well it was ridiculously easy to discover what pub it was, OP. Looks like you’ve inadvertently named them anyway!

You might want to get this taken down as you’ve mentioned that your daughter works in it. Good luck.

www.gov.uk/tips-at-work/tips-and-tax

Do tips go into a tronc? This is a way companies can pay tips after deducting tax