Others in family making decisions about my mums money

[cousineddie]

Is this ethical/allowed?

My mum has some cognitive issues (mainly processing and short term memory) and lots of mental health problems , she’s awaiting a CT scan . She doesn’t work and receives benefits . Normally she has a very poor quality of life and doesn’t go out much at all . Clothes are all very old . Her bed is broken (wooden frame is spilt down the middle) as is the one I use at home . Never had a holiday etc .

Recently she received a lump sum from the DWP to do with a back payment for ESA or something. She was intending on spending some of that money on Christmas presents for Dsis and I (dsis is severely autistic so still sees Christmas as present time) and so we could have a nice Christmas dinner , she and I could maybe go to the cinema and get a coffee after . She was also going to buy me a hair cut .

I’m a student so I don’t have the money to pay for that sort of stuff either , I’d have to save for a couple of months .

I helped her buy £150 worth of stuff for my sisters Christmas , she will be delighted , she’s got some fab things to open .

My mums relative rang me yesterday and shouted at me for this , for a fair while , the money is there for savings only and nothing else and she isn’t to spend it and they’re going to try to take it off her so she can’t access it . It’s for her future in case she needs to go to a nursing home or something one day . Left me in floods of tears after . I’ve had severe depression for a couple of months and was looking forward to getting home and having a nice time but Christmas will be on a v tight budget as per usual .

Am I in the wrong for thinking just saving all that money (it’s 5k) isn’t worth it ? Mum’s funeral is paid for already and all that . She’s only 53... It would be nice if she could have some quality of life at the moment . I don’t know if I’m being silly . I know Christmas isn’t the be all and end all . I was thinking mum could have bought herself a new bed and some decent clothes . And maybe she and I could have gone to the cinema and got a takeaway at New year .

I don’t know if I’m being silly , I’m just frustrated... mum doesn’t have any power of attorney or guardianship or anything like that , just that family will be very very angry and might withdraw support if she spends any of that money . They check her bank etc ... I would get the blame and I don’t think I’d be forgiven.

I don’t know what to do - accept that Christmas will be a case of sitting in the house for 3 weeks and scraping together for a meal etc , or using some of that money (no more than £500) and having a lovely time and enjoying ourselves ? After all if things are as bloody dire as family suggest (sheltered housing etc) might as well make the most of time we have ?

How do these relatives get to know what's happening with your mum's bank account? However it's happening your mum needs to put a stop to it.
You are doing your best for your mother and sister but keep a bit of time and headspace for yourself OP. You need some tlc too.

Another person, who thinks you should change passwords or card number pin on bank account.
Also please go get the things your mum needs.... If you save this money as newspaper said they can stop her benefits...
Please tell the person your mum is refunding you money you have lent her...
Who is the family member?

Who do you have for support in all of this?

Use the money to get your mum a new bed/clothes. Get power of attorney (financial and medical). Remove any relatives being able to view her accounts- how are they doing it?

You need to see your tutor at uni and see what financial/mental health support you can get for yourself.

I'd also echo all the comments that if no-one has POA how are these relatives so in control of your Mum's finances.
Having lost my Mum to dementia and cancer three years ago and also struggled with her inability to manage money, one thing I don't regret one little bit is that she spent her money on little things that made her life a bit happier and comfortable. I'm still dealing with some of the fallout from that now.
Your Mum being encouraged to sit on that money just in case she needs it to pay for care might be sensible, but rather joyless.

I think you’re having a hard time here.
Where were these relatives when your ema and part time student wages were being used to support your mum?
You would have had more personal money to spend on yourself or savings if this hadn’t happened.
I bet they weren’t stepping in to help back then ?
Yes your mother needs clothes and a new bed, but if she has asked you to buy those things for your sister surely that’s her choice.

If your mum has capacity to handle her money relatives should butt out, she can change her password to stop them having access to her account. She can choose power of attorney.
If she doesn't then you or whoever she chooses can be her appointee to support her with benefits.
If she has capacity sometimes but not others, decisions should be made on a good day even if this means waiting a while. If savings get over£6k it will affect benefits.
Paying for residential care is v expensive, £10k would be a drop in the ocean, but you don't pay if you have less than 16k. You don't have to go in the poshest home, lots of people never go into care, you can have lots of care at home unless you have advanced dementia.
Social services can advise if you think there is a safeguarding issue, and assess your needs as carer as well as mum. Gd luck

If your Mum has just had a large back dated payment I am guessing she's been through an appeal process. Did you support her with that or is it something she's done on her own or with support from someone else? Who looks after her while you are at Uni? I ask as you seem unsure as to what it was actually for. presumably if she has won an appeal she has additional money coming in weekly now. Are you able to sit down and work out an ongoing budget for her and help her buy the things she needs now like a new bed.

You, OP, are your Mum's relative, closer than any others I would suggest, and you sound like a star for having got where you are against the odds. Ignore the nasty posts on here, but do look at getting POA for your Mum, as then you are in control of what happens, and not other relatives, when she can't make her own decisions.

She may not have been through an appeal process as there are some teams looking at old benefit claims and making back dated payments. It's a careful balance when you're on benefits between spending and saving. I agree the priorities are a new bed etc and I can understand family concerns about money being spent. You also need to sort out your finances.

I think you’re getting a really hard time here, I don’t think you’re being at all unreasonable

Your mum will never have to spend that £5k on care, no one with less than around £14k has to. So don’t worry about that. Of course she needs a rainy day fund but the treats for your family are really modest. Enjoy them

It sounds as if things have been really tough for you and you’ve done really well

You've been your mothers main carer since you were 4, and your other relatives are giving YOU a hard time? Wow. Where are THEY helping out in all this? Why aren't THEY inviting you and your Mum for a family Christmas dinner?

It probably was a bit over generous to spend £150 on pressies for your sister, but you're still young and it was what your Mum wanted to do.

I agree that the priority has to be a replacement bed and some warm clothes for your Mum, but I would think a nice but modest Christmas dinner was perfectly reasonable.

Spending from a big payment of DLA or equivalent is very contentious.
I can see how the £150 for sisters presents looks inappropriate to relatives, if it was spent before buying her a new bed.

No , never helped before . I used to sit up at night until 3am helping mum then going to school the next day . It was only when she OD’d this summer that I asked for help and said I couldn’t cope alone anymore .

DF abused me as a child so zero contact .

Previously I was told the problems were mine to deal with, somehow ... Most family totally unaware until last six months .

I have a v v close relationship with my aunty on paternal side and I tell her everything , as she lives closest to me , but she doesn’t have much to do with mum really and she doesn’t ask . She’s just there for me iyswim , which is a big help . My personal tutor is aware , I’ve also got a therapist via uni , a mental health nurse , GP helps and I’ve been referred for carers support and community mental health . Think I have access to widening access team as well .

I don’t live near mum anymore (I moved away as I couldn’t handle it anymore, I was driving myself to resentment) . Would that affect POA? I remember trying to get it for sister when I was 18 , that involved huge numbers of psychiatric assessments as my mum was the applicant , they had to change it so I was the main applicant as mum wasn’t allowed due to mental health . I’ve never attempted suicide or been hospitalised though and manage my own life so hopefully that wouldn’t stand in my way .

I’ve asked aunty via text just now if she and I can sit and talk about things after Christmas and she’s agreed , she’s a DWP manager so happy to try talk some stuff over a bit , uncle has POA for his mother who has Alzheimer’s (we’ll pray that won’t be my mum) so they’ve an idea of how it works .

RE my own finances if my MH calms down over Christmas (I’ve spent last 3 weeks in a zombie state on diazepam and zopiclone) then hopefully I can try get a job again and build up some cash .

Thanks so much for the lovely replies and advice . Calmed down a bit since last night so that’s good . On my way home first time in 2 months , not sure if I’m nervous or excited !

Why does another member of the family have access to your mum's bank accounts? That needs to change immediately. You are her daughter - you have priority here.

Get your mum a new bed and some new clothes. Don't tell your mum's family anything at all. They have let you care for her all these years - that's when they should have interfered.

It wasn’t an appeal but been told it’s legitimate , DWP were phoned . I don’t know what happened or why - something to do with ESA short fall . She was taken off IS and paid very little (ie £400 a month) for two years so that could be the issue .

RE bed I’m not stopping her buying one , I would suggest that’s a priority but family said go second hand ... apparently they’re looking for one .

And YY I will try to work out why on earth half her relatives are accessing bank statements , etc . Seemingly it’s all to help me I was told ? It’s a bit bloody late and it’s the wrong sort of help.

Who do you mean by "family"? Do they manage day to day care?

Get those passwords changed. Phone the bank and check that her statements are not going to another address. (Though will the bank speak to you? Who is officially your mum's spokesperson or would she do that herself?)

Get a new bed! You can get one for a couple of hundred pounds. Tell your relatives that you're not giving them money if they buy one themselves.

If your sister is in 24/7 care, how come her financial needs aren't being met? I can see that your mum might want to buy her a treat, but doesn't she have enough money to get most things herself? Who is in charge of your sister's money?

What your mum spends her money on is her decision, nobody else's. Your mum currently has capacity so if she wants to blow the lot on a cruise or a spaceship or your sister it's her choice. Unless and until she is deemed to have lost capacity everyone else should butt out. Part of capacity = she has the right to make what other people see as stupid decisions.

If you don't think she is capable of making decisions any more then ask for an assessment from the GP and get POA set up asap.

I think I would get in before your relatives and not confide in them too much. If your mum has capacity it is very straightforward to get poa.
Speak to or get info from age uk. Or you can google power of attorney.
Get a solicitor, they can come to the house if mum can't get out, it can all be done quite quickly. I hope your aunt has not already got appointeeship. I think you probably need to take charge unless you or mum want them to. Talk to your mum now, it will make things easier for her and you. She can deal with things when able or hand over to you when not. You have to act in her best interest
If your sister does not have capacity someone is probably her guardian for court of protection, a much more complicated process which takes a persons rights away so decisions can be made.
A person has to have capacity for poa, the threshold is quite low, but if you wait until they don't have capacity you can't get poa

Sorry I haven’t been able to update this in a few days , been very hectic .

When I got back home my relatives (my mums cousin , my mum and another cousin) met me and we spent dinner going over bank statements , that was fun ... not .

I’ve been told there’s a set limit my mum can spend and she’s not to go over that at all and I’m not to ask for anything or spend any extra. She didn’t have any toilet roll (well, 2 left), low on all food and soap powder . So I helped her buy £50 worth of stuff and said to her family I had to buy that . They said that’s fine but make sure I check freezer for food instead which I’m trying to do .

Mum doesn’t remember buying my sister presents or me (she’s no idea what I’ve got she doesn’t think) and was annoyed at my sister getting £120 worth . She’s getting a cheap perfume , cheap body wash , 4 or 5 kids books, a mug, a dvd and a crayola set . I thought that was OK ...

I can’t keep tabs on money because when I do, mum gets angry and cries .

But if I don’t ; family get angry and phone demanding to know what I’m spending money on them.

No bloody ATM anywhere near so if I do need to check her balance I’ve got to take her to the shops , cousin removed her online banking (mum agreed with this) and is trying to get telephone banking blocked as well .

Or keep it all written down on paper exactly what’s spent and when but I can just picture mums reaction to that .

Mum is also crying a great deal of the time over her memory , not understanding stuff , she doesn’t want anyone’s help as she isn’t stupid , etc . She wants to see her GP but no appts til 11th. I am desperately wishing I could find someone else to support her who isn’t wanting to sit and shout at me for not upsetting her . I don’t know what I do for the best sometimes . I went through all this with sister for years , now she’s got external support her day to day life it isn’t so much my responsibility (not that I’ve washed my hands of her as I do still worry but not half as much) but I wish there was someone reliable to help mum too .

It’s easier with sister as I know she has an understanding of where the limit lies in spending and she knows she’s autistic and asks for help .

Mum is swinging between ‘I’m fine, leave me alone’ and ‘I can’t cope, I need help’ . Knows she is struggling but wants to be ‘normal’ she says and doesn’t understand why we want to help her .

RE POA etc - mum not in agreement and not happy with the suggestion , but my aunty (uninvolved) said she’d talk to me after new year .

Had a very good long - tearful - discussion with hairdresser today , they must get extra training in it !! That did help a great deal .

In terms of not telling relatives - mum will , they will take her to appointments (now that I don’t live at home) and to bank sometimes and that’s when she discusses it all . Cousin phones most days and mum speaks to her , doesn’t argue with her . She will tell me exactly what she thinks of my help but nooone else . I love her to bits . Just want to sort this out and get my mum back sort of .

So your mum's nieces are the ones telling you what to do?

OK... Why don't you all have a purse for your mum, with say 50 in cash in it....
That way she has money. But can't over spend....
I think you need to either step back as you are too far away to help daily....
Or move nearer.