How do I approach this with my childminder?

[opalescent]

My daughter is just approaching 2.
I strongly feel that she is dropping her nap. Put simply, if she doesn't have a day time sleep, she goes straight to bed at 7.30. If she has any form of daytime sleep, it is generally between 9 and 10pm before she will settle.

On my days off, I don't find it a huge issue t keep her awake. She might get a bit whiny towards the evening, and I probably wouldn't go on a long car journey at 4pm! But in general, she is fine, just needs a bit of geeing along.

On her childminder days, she always sleeps, anything up to an hour. I have asked if this could stop, but my childminder feels that she needs a sleep, and says that if she doesn't have one, she will fall asleep on the afternoon school run.

It's really frustrating though! She goes there 4 days a week- and the impact for our evening is massive.

How pushy is it reasonable for me to be? My childminder is fantastic, and I don't want to piss her off. But neither do I want my household dominated by a toddler until 10pm 4 evenings a week!!

Well would she fall asleep on the school run?

“Have a lovely day, DD! Now, , what I’ve seen for the past 3 weeks is that when DD hasn’t had a nap during the day she will sleep all night from 7.30. So I don’t want her having a nap today and we’ll see how it goes. Thanks! See you at 5.”

The problem is the childminder does need to do a journey late afternoon so without the nap she will probably fall asleep then - same as you wouldn’t do a long journey with her at a similar time.

It’s not fair on anyone to have an over tired grumpy toddler

How long would she sleep on the school run if she did fall asleep? Not much you (or the childminder) can do about that anyway...

We had to put our foot down about this with our nanny. A nap undoubtedly made her day easier but it made our evenings hell. There was no school run for other children to consider though. If she drives there's probably not a lot she can do to stop your daughter napping then.

I would ask her to give it a try. I have had parents who don’t want there children to nap and yet without fail fall asleep on the school run so they would of been better having a short nap earlier.
I would ask if you can trial it this week or if she is off Christmas week or 2 weeks go back and say she hasn’t napped for 1 or 2 weeks can we see how we go.

When my DS dropped his nap there was no making him sleep during the day if he didn’t want to! I did try because I thought he still needed it but no, he just wouldn’t sleep. I think if your DD is still sleeping when she is put down for it then she still needs it. She wouldn’t sleep if she’s wasn’t tired. On your part I would keep tying to put her down at 7:30pm. Do the whole bedtime routine as normal so she knows it’s bedtine.

It isn’t so easy to directly compare how she is at home to how she is with the childminder. It is a lot more tiring for children to be out of the home with other children all day than just at home with mummy. Getting a bit whiny and needing some geeing along with you could amount to being a nightmare at the childminder. If you think she is good you perhaps have to trust her judgment a bit, but you could always put your foot down and say you want to try a week with no naps. If she keeps falling asleep on the school run and the bedtime problem isn’t solved then you have your answer.

How long is her school run though?y DD never sleeps on the school run in the car for long with her CM as it’s such a short journey and she’s woken by getting out of the car then back in. If they walk, as in she’s in the buggy, then I’d suggest you say to your CM that you’ll take that risk.
I think you probably need to be politely firm and just say that she doesn’t need a nap any more so please don’t put her down for one

I strongly feel that she is dropping her nap. Put simply, if she doesn't have a day time sleep, she goes straight to bed at 7.30. If she has any form of daytime sleep, it is generally between 9 and 10pm before she will settle

Personally, I would disagree that this means she’s ready to drop her nap. I know all children are different, but she’s not yet two, and just because she might drop a nap one day, it doesn’t mean she’s capable of not napping seven days a week.

Personally, we’ve been through that HIGHLY annoying phase of a toddler not being ready for bed until 9-10pm with both of our children. They stopped the nap eventually, but not until past their third birthdays. We just had to put up with company in the evenings, which sucked, but was marginally better than screaming overtired toddler from hell from 4pm-ish onwards.

Maybe ask the childminder to wake her after a half hour sleep at lunchtime, and see if that makes a difference in the evening?

How about suggesting a shorter nap? I used to mind and had a little girl that was the same. She used to have a 20 min nap straight after lunch, enough to keep her going and not fall asleep in the car on school run but would still go to bed at a reasonable time. Are you sure she's only having an hour too and not all afternoon??

If you really want her not to nap after lunch, insist your CM keeps her up and take the consequences on the chin if she does fall asleep on the school run. I don't think you can insist she skips the nap and then magically keeps her awake on the school run too. But if you're right and she's ready to drop her nap, she will stay awake herself on the school run.

My experience is children cope well with different routines at home and at school. Our nursery dropped my children's naps earlier than I would have done, and they both continued with home naps a few months after dropping them at nursery. Having naps some days is just a staging post to giving them up altogether.

As you've said yourself, at home, you don't have the long car journey.

What time does the childminder put her down for a nap? Could it be made any earlier? Could you or childminder do something with her in the afternoon to really wear her out after a nap, like a walk?

My youngest started dropping his daytime sleep from about 18 months. He wouldn't go to sleep when put down. I had to go in the car around 3.30pm every day and even then he didn't fall asleep on the journey. Some toddlers do just drop sleep early. He's always slept well at night though so I won't complain!

In my experience and garnering those from others, before children are ready to completely drop their naps, they often nap but not every day. I would ask your childminder to try your dd without a nap for a day or two and see how it goes. If she falls asleep on the school run, this is something you will have to contend with.

I’m also agreeing out of the home children are different from how they are at home. Dd actually wouldn’t sleep at nursery when she started to drop her naps and would sleep with when home to catch up. Your dd may just be doing it the other way round.

If your dd doesn’t respond well to no naps and is tantruming for a considerable length of time leaving it difficult for example to cook food for the children or upsetting the household, the cm is going to have to prioritise your dds sleep.

Thank you all, really helpful responses. I think the school run takes around 30 minutes all in.
You're right, I can't expect her to magically stay awake during this if she hasn't napped, and it's unfair to expect this of the CM.

And yes, she is very good and experienced. Perhaps I need to adjust my expectations of evenings for a while, and make my peace with her being up for longer!

I think I will ask her to try and limit a nap to 30 mins and see what happens.