Belonging to a nationality different to belonging to a religion?

[Hermagsjesty]

My DH said he thinks belonging to a nationality is basically the same as belonging to a religion. I said I didn’t agree but couldn’t really articulate why... It just feels to me that religion is more a matter of belief/ tradition/ choosing to belong where you are born into a nation and are obliged to follow its laws but don’t necessarily connect to its customs and traditions (partly depending on your own religious background maybe). I wondered what other people’s thoughts were?

TOTALLY different .... what if you are and have never been religious?

Isn’t the question rather NATIONALITY to RESIDENCE? I am born in Africa but chose to live in the UK

Of course they're different. One is where you're from and one is your belief.

I think it's better to judge people as individuals, not stereotype them based on religion, race or nationality, so I don't really see a point to your debate.

I used to live i Kazakhstan.
Most Kazakhs are Muslim, although they are not very heavy in their practices. It is (or was then) pretty much like most people in UK will still say they are C of E on a form, or we have the bishop at remembrance day events, it was a sort of cultural Islam.

The Kazakh nationalist said, very strongly, that to be Kazakh was to be Muslim. And along with that was the idea that to change to anything that wasn't Muslim was letting your tribe down.

As I said, most Kazakhs didn't take their faith seriously, and saw it as part of their cultural heritage. But there were those who went to the mosque, fasted, prayed and were very serious about their faith. They themselves saw a difference between their nationality and their faith and urged their fellow countrymen to come and join in their faith 'properly'

But we knew a load of Kazakhs who were Christian. They were very serious about their faith. they had a set of Christian beliefs, some of which went completely against Muslim beliefs. They would not participate on Islamic ceremonies or go to the mosque. They were clear that they had changed their religion, and their new faith was nothing to do with Islam.
At the same time they were passionate about their nationality and country and still did all the traditional ceremonies, in some cases within the church and in some cases they were not of any religion. The church was very Kazakh, nothing like a UK church, full of what is normal culturally for Kazakhs.

So, no, while there are massive overlaps in terms of culture, nationality is not the same as religion

another interesting example, is that there are many Jewish people who call themselves cultural Jews.
In other words they hold on to all the culture of their nation, but they do not have a faith in God.

They are Jewish, but not followers of the Jewish faith.

In the UN convention on Human Rights, one is freedom of religion and under that it talks about freedom to change religion too.

Some nations do consider their citizens to be of their religion. You cannot be a Saudi National if you are not a muslim.
But they are contravening the Human Rights declaration, by not allowing their citizens freedom in their religious beliefs

Really interesting responses, thanks. @steppemum I’m of Jewish heritage (but not practicing) whereas my DH is English and broadly C of E - so I wonder if that might be partly behind our different attitudes... To me, his saying nationality is basically the same as belonging to a religion seems to imply you can’t be of one nationality and of another religion (which isn’t traditional/ typical to that nationality) which is maybe why it doesn’t sit right.

If you unpick what your dh is saying, he is saying that you can't be English and Jewish? Or English and Muslim, or even English and no religion?

What about English and practising druid? (they were here before the Cof E church)

What is an English person converted to Islam? Of Buddhism? Do they stop being English? Or are they 'really' Cof E underneath still?

When you think about it like that, it is nonsense!

That’s exactly it @steppemum - I struggled to articulate it at the time but it’s been playing on my mind, as I couldn’t work out exactly why it felt like such like a flawed attitude.

Ask him if he thinks you're Israeli.

Some nationalities are quite demanding of their citizens, in a religious like manner. For instance in the USA there is a lot of enforced reverence towards the flag and the national anthem, look at the huge fuss about sports stars kneeling for the anthem. I think he's wrong about being British being similar to being part of a religion though, pretty much anything goes if you're British with regards to standing/not standing for the national anthem, being royalist/anti-royalist etc. The only 'religious' part of being British is queuing correctly.

I think perceived national identity is as much a choice as religion. You can be born into both things but are free (in most civilised countries) to evolve in a different direction. Or not.

I am Dutch and atheist. That does not make me less Dutch than a Dutch Catholic, or less atheist than an atheist Brit.