Undocumented immigrants in America

[Tobuyornot99]

Are there any Americans / other people who know....I've been watching a tv series where one of the characters is undocumented, she's from Latin America. She owns a business, pays taxes etc, and is married to an American. But lives in fear of getting deported....is this a real life scenario? Surely you're either legally in a country or you're not?
It just confused me....Maybe I'm overthinking. My googling has returned nothing, so maybe a wise Mumsnetter can help?

Yeah it happens a lot. They pay more tax than the president does.
www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17229018/undocumented-immigrants-pay-taxes

It's very realistic scenario.
In UK, employers & service providers enforce immigration policy. They check your ID to see if you can legally work, attend school, have a bank account, etc.

It's supposed to be same in USA, but there are more loopholes, so people can end up very settled. US govt is very keen to have taxpayers so easily allow that. DH has a tax-payer number and he's never been individually liable to pay US taxes but it reduced my tax bill one year to claim him as dependent.

Just like UK, being married to a citizen doesn't much help you become a legal resident.

Well this has blown me away, it seems very cruel to allow people to buy houses, and children to school, pay taxes, all whilst they can be deported at any time. Do any children born in America to undocumented immigrants have legal status there?
Presumably if you committed a crime or suchlike you'd be deported?
I have some African colleagues who told me how mind blowingly hard it is to move to the UK, it seems berserk that all of these poor people are in limbo in America.

Are you watching The Affair?

Yes, good detective work. Poor, fictional Louisa!

The U.S. has literally millions of undocumented immigrants. Their children are automatically U.S. citizens if they were born in the United States. If not, they can be brought over by their parents at the age of 6 months, go to school, work, buy a house, start a business and live a decent, law abiding life for 35 years, only to be nabbed by immigration (ICE) and tossed into Mexico (or wherever) without a dime to their name. The system is horrifically broken. There should be a way whereby these people can obtain citizenship (in line after the people who came here legally). An enormous number of hoops have to be jumped to get citizenship in the U.S., so it wouldn't be fair to push the folks here who came here illegally to the front of the line, but there should be some sort of system available. This is a very polarizing issue in the U.S., which is ironic, considering we are, for the most part, a nation of immigrants. The current foreign born population (legal and illegal) (percentage) is the highest that it has been since the massive influx in the nineteenth century, which is probably exacerbating things. More than you probably wanted to know, but yes, people who have lived here illegally for almost their entire lives are being deported.

Thanks DulciUke. Why would they be deported after say 35 years though, do ICE just randomly choose people or would something flag up? What would they be expected to do with their children who presumably aren't Mexican citizens?

Well this has blown me away, it seems very cruel to allow people to buy houses, and children to school, pay taxes, all whilst they can be deported at any time.

Not unlike the Windrush generation here.

Yes Bombardier you are right of course. Wind Rush is a diabolical state of affairs, but the sheer numbers in the USA are baffling. I think (maybe mistakenly) that the UK government backtracked on their decision, rightly so, but America seems to show no logic on this issue?

Wind rush was an error. When they were invited into the country the intention was that they would become permanent residents. It’s is an odd state of affairs in America though. But I suppose it’s in the governments interest to be able to deport people if for whatever reason they choose to.

Do any children born in America to undocumented immigrants have legal status there?

The US Constitution (14th amendment) says YES, so that should be an end of it. However Donald Trump in one of his "I am the master of the Universe" moments has suggested they shouldn't. For an American, he doesn't respect the constitution much ...

(Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.)

Of course if you know your US history, you'll know the 14th amendment had to be bought in because some states would otherwise have tried to expel or disenfranchise former slaves as "not being citizens"

Why would they be deported after say 35 years though, do ICE just randomly choose people or would something flag up?

Until recently the policy was to ignore illegal aliens who were law abiding. Zero tolerance for them was counter productive, because it created a culture of hiding genuine criminals (drug & people smugglers). The Trump revisions are to round up everyone. There are recent examples of families where woman voted for Trump & her (law abiding many decades resident) husband got deported. The whole family may go with the deported person so small communities notice their departure.

What would they be expected to do with their children who presumably aren't Mexican citizens?

Typically the kids leave with parents, but sometimes the kids go into foster care in USA. The allegations now is that DHS deliberately kept no records that would have enabled reunification, when they went thru their 'kids in cages' phase. This is the attitude of Stephen Miller, Jeff Sessions. 2 yr olds representing selves in court. Wish I was making some of that up.

Windrush was an error. When they were invited into the country the intention was that they would become permanent residents.

Please don't repeat the lies the Government tried to hide behind.

When they were invited to the country they were BRITISH CITIZENS and therefore had the same need to register or become a "permanent resident" as any other British Citizen. This is why they were unable to produce any documentation (that the Home Office hadn't burned). They never needed it.

toby they're expected to leave their US born kids behind, usually in the hands of a guardian (hopefully a family member) as otherwise they'll get shunted into the US care system which is awful

There's a huge push atm within undocumented immigrant circles to get guardianship for their kids with someone with a US passport as a result.

Its started to become common here in many communities where there are high % of undocumented immigrants for people to go 'underground ' and not attend work, school or church for fear of being pulled over. They've lifted people in all of these places - the other favorite of ICE is to lie in wait at US Customs and Immigration Services offices (where you go for visa and green card applications) when ppl are going for routine appointments and then take them

This whole shitshow, kids being detained in cages / camps and the alleged 'migrant caravan' and allegedly Trump being 'strong on immigration' is new policy.

All well and good, but a lot of it is the fault of the US (imo). they have consistently undermined and funded central and south american countries since the 50's (originally against communism), and in recent years the drug trade. A lot of these countries have become so unstable (either the economy, drugs or gangs) that people feel they have no choice but to leave.

The majority of Trump etc supporters are all for building 'the wall' etc but they don't seem to connect that a large % of undocumented immigrants provide a majority share of the workforce that they directly benefit from (farm laborers, domestic workers etc)

Most people in the U.S, much less the border region, don't want the wall. Even if the wall is built, there's this little thing called the Pacific Ocean. I assume that it is easy enough to get from Baja to San Diego by boat. I swear to god, none of these people have ever looked at a map.

Yes, the U.S. is responsible for horrible things south of the border (and other places). However, I think that if Britain was magically transported next to a quite poor country with an incredibly long desert border, its undocumented alien population would swell quite a bit too.