First aid course - uncomfortable with instructor.

[StrongerThanIThought76]

Went on a first aid at work course recently and am still unsure as to whether or not the instructor was a bit too 'much'.

Aside from some very open racist comments, a few eyebrow raising sexist comments and some downright atrocious body-shaming comments ('breasts like beagles ears' anyone?) I am still feeling physically uncomfortable with the level of physical contact required from the session.

I have previously, yet a long time ago, been on the 3 day course and did a paediatric course 4 years ago for work.

Please can soneone confirm if the current Emergency First Aid in the Workplace qualification/procedures require the first aider to do the following upon the discovery of an unconscious but breathing casualty?

• feeling of skull all over
• feeling of forehead, nose, cheekbones
• feeling of neck for broken vertebrae
• feeling of side of ribs for breaks
• two-handed squeezing of legs from just below crotch to ankles to check for breaks
• two handed squeezing of arms from armpit to hand, as above.

This all before ringing for an ambulance.

Perhaps I am being very sensitive. However, in a room of complete strangers - mixed sexes and very diverse - we had to perform this check possibly 15 times altogether.

I will be making a complaint about the sexist and racist language anyway. AIBU to query if procedures have changed SO MUCH in the last few years that first aiders are now required to 'feel vigorously' for breaks by engaging in such an involved hands-on manner?

Thanks

What sort of workplace is it, did he explain why you need to do a secondary survey, did you also get taught the basics.

I’ve done 7 16 hours outdoor first aid courses over 20 years. All of them have involved that sort of body check. And yes - practiced around 10 times or more over the course of two days. Part of the check is also to check for bleeding and info to give to emergency services

Another nurse never taught to do any of that.
You need to complain op.

I did all of those checks on a first aid, two day course last year.
Your instructor sounds horrendous! Glad you will be reporting him.

One day emergency first aid at work course. A mixture of employers/sectors within the trainees - nothing specialist.

Yes we did the basics - danger, responsive, airways, breathing, circulation.

Then all this. I was actually pulled up on not being thorough enough - feeling legs and arms with more vigour.

We were taught secondary survey on a two day paediatric first aid course last year. An independent company, not St.John's or red cross.

Is that how they teach it now, danger, responsive, airway, breathing, circulation. In my day it was always airway, breathing, circulation ABC for basic first aid or basic CPR training.

www.sja.org.uk/sja/first-aid-advice/what-to-do-as-a-first-aider/the-secondary-survey.aspx

www.sja.org.uk/sja/first-aid-advice/what-to-do-as-a-first-aider/how-to-assess-a-casualty/the-primary-survey.aspx

Is that how they teach it now, danger, responsive, airway, breathing, circulation. In my day it was always airway, breathing, circulation ABC for basic first aid or basic CPR training.

Yes, ABC has become DR ABC.

It's 12 years since I last refreshed my First Aider training (2 day refresher) but we were taught the body checks as a secondary survey after the first aid (DR ABC & get help). I used the technique on my son only a couple of weeks ago after he fell out of the top bunkbed - he was fine, made of rubber.

Another vote for "sounds dodgy" from a healthcare professional...

No need to feel around for breaks before calling 999, especially for fractures in necks!!! we don't touch necks without Dr present or supports in place.

I've just done emergency first aid at work and didn't do any touching.
The only one remotely similar was practicing putting bandages on a mannequin.

Did this man have a particular accent by any chance? Some colleagues of mine went on a first aid course and came back with similar stories to those you report OP.

He wasn't bald and ex army by any chance?

Yes this is all part of the secondary survey. My place of work are using a reputable company to do the training for us. I need to renew every 2 years; 16 hours First Aid course with outdoor indorsement.

The comments on the other hand are plain out of order.

Quite a strong local accent but not ex army.

Was the instructor short, bald and claimed to have taught martial arts to the police? First name 4 letters beginning with A?

If so, I’ve had a run in with him too...

If professional assistance has been summoned I see absolutely no point in a first aider undertaking a secondary survey. What would be the point and I say this as a health professional?

If you have any concerns about the C spine you should be immobilising the neck, not fucking prodding it. Why on earth palpate the neck in an unconscious patient - they can't tell you if it's tender ffs.

Yes, I was taught to do a full body check like that but that was about 25 years ago.

Outdoor first aid focuses on secondary survey as a way if giving more info to first aider - particularly if there is a long wait for assistance and you might need to make the decision to move the casualty and keep them stable. That would include immobilisation if neck if necessary. Feeling round the neck is also to find medi-alert necklaces.

Sounds a bit much

I was also taught to do full body checks. But I was taught to do them with the backs of my hands so that there was no danger of misinterpretation.

Would local be Northish Midlands?

DR ABC has now changed last time i did my course a year ago to DRS ABCD.

Danger, response, shout for help (get help), airway, breathjng, capillary refil, defibrilation.

What he did sounds lile secondary survey but i wasn't taught that this time round so maybe they dropped it?