Is anyone well versed in consumer law? Particularly in relation to cars?

[JellyDots]

Please help.

I bought a car for £10000 11months ago. I have just taken it to the main dealer (not where the car was purchased) for the MOT and to have the bumper fixed as one small portion of it kept popping away from the car. It pops back in easily - so I naively thought that it was just a bracket which needed replacing, or similar.

Unfortunately the dealer has discovered when removing the bumper, that the car has had a significant front end collision. The damage is estimated to be £2500, and the car is unsafe. (And has been the whole time). The have provided an estimate of the damage, and two reports and photos which show the damage prior to me buying the car - as such I am in a strong position to claim the repair from the garage where I bought the car.

I’ve sought advice from trading standards and spoken verbally to the dealer and forwarded the estimate and reports at his request. He’s aknowledged receipt and said I will hear from him on Wednesday as he’s not open until then.

Does anyone know how long I have to wait for his replies? I’m currently using a courtesy car from the main dealer which I have to give back tomorrow (unless I authorise them to begin repairs - which I can’t as I need to have given the original garage the chance to correct the issue). I have already advised them that I am seeking an independent repair as I have lost faith in his ability to repair it to a satisfactory standard. (There are reasons which I’ll happily share but the post will be epic).

So, I’ll be without a car (which I need for work) until he responds or possibly longer, is that right? I use my car for work so this isn’t an option. I’m worried I’m going to have to pay this money with no way to pursue it because I couldn’t wait to follow the correct legal steps.

Bumping because it was a boring question for a Friday night!

I think it's reasonable to expect a response within 14 days? Probably won't help your not having a car situation though! Sorry!

You are definitely in a good position if you can show the damage was present at time of purchase (this is your responsibility if purchase is over 6 months I believe?)
I personally would hire a care and keep all recipes of costs and if this can’t be resolved ASAP look to reclaim costs from the garage where you purchased.

We bought a lemon (death trap, really) & made so many mistakes we didn't get our money back, so speaking from experience. Do not agree with the seller to anything that is less than the compensation you want. However, that doesn't mean you can force them into compensation, it depends what the legal rights are. I thought that a buyer didn't have redress after 6 months. Trading Standards are your bible on your options for getting compensation.

Moneysaving expert is a good place, I should think, to ask about your options. Could be what you're pursuing for is case for fraud rather than anything to do with the quality of good not being what they should be (Sale of Goods Act). CAB may advise too.

Thank you for all your replies. I’m already in contact with trading standards but they’re closed now until Monday and I really need to get moving.

As I understand it, my rights apply for up to 6yrs, as long as I can prove the damage pre-existed my purchase. His first option is to pay for the repair or offer to fix. I’ve declined him having the car because when I spoke to him on the phone, before he saw the report, he said I wouldn’t need a new radiator if it wasn’t actually leaking - it’s bent in half by the damage. 🤔 I don’t want to cut corners. I’ve also discovered that between us viewing the car and collecting it, things were changed. I did suspect this but am now able to prove it because the main dealer have before and after pictures showing the switches.

If he offers repair at an independent 3rd party I’ll consider it, as I do understand the main dealer will be the most expensive price. Or obviously financial redress of the repair costs.

If he declines then I have to write and remind him of these options, but at this stage I’m also entitled to ask for a refund for the car. If he declines again, I’m free to do what I want and can proceed with a claim through courtesy legally I’ve given him all options.

I have signed documentation from him that the car had an 82 point RAC check before being sold - this would have picked the damage up. These incidentally aren’t worth the paper they’re written on if you’re thinking of buying a car. The RAC just train the sales people to do them - if they’re dodgy, they just won’t. I’ve called the RAC and they were ‘sympathetic’ that one of their ‘approved dealers’ had ripped me off, but there is nothing they can do to help.

Basically the car has hit a tree/lamppost front central, they’ve straightened out what they can, and stuck a new bumper over the rest. The front impact bar is comprised completely. None of this can be seen without removing the bumper - there’s no way I could have seen it myself.

The courtesy car is a good idea but I’m worried I’ll never see a penny from him and so I don’t want to add to my costs. Trading standards website is really good but I can’t find anywhere how long I have to give him after each letter, although it does say that the process shouldn’t cause me any inconvenience.

Sorry - also, the car only has one former keeper, and he knew them - he’s confirmed in writing that he knows the history as it belonged to an acquaintance- so he definitely knew about the damage. He also confirmed via text that the car had a full health check with the main dealer prior to collection, and it had no issues - it did go to the main dealer for an update to the nav system - but they’ve sent me the report to say he declined this full health check. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Have you got legal cover on your motor or home insurance?

If so - ring them. It’s free (well from now - you’ve already paid for it when you bought the policy!) and they should be able to give you some timely advice.

The main question is can you prove absolutely that the damage relates to the old crash? The answer unfortunately is probably not after 11 months and how many thousand miles. The dealer will likely take the position that you've had 11 months use of a car (for which they can charge even if they give you a refund, usually it is based on the mileage you have done and around 40p per mile).

If I were you I would be kicking up a fuss with the RAC as well. If you have legal cover I suggest you instruct solicitors. Beware a lot of fly by night dealers have a tendency to use fly by night online "legal practices" (that's a stretch) that appear to be solicitors who will write whatever they're told rather than actually give advice.

In my experience dealerships don't tend to role over in the first month where they have to take the vehicle back to faults etc. You'll need robust evidence, and ultimately will probably have to issue a court claim. Be wary on how much you're claiming for though as it could easily value over the small claims track (if you start hiring cars etc). If it does you'll have to pay out more upfront, there is more than just the claim fee which will be a percentage of the overall claim. Unfortunately few buying second hand cars in this sort of bracket have that ability (unless covered by legal insurance).

In any event you'll need to show to the court you've allowed the dealer reasonable time to respond. Then there are specific procedures to send letter before action etc. Realistically if you wrote today and it ends up going down the court route I can't see you being able to issue papers before late January even early February given the dealer may be able to hide behind "Christmas shutdown".

The biggest problem I foresee is that the dealer will produce an " independent" report from the time of sale plus the MOT regarding road worthiness. I really do think you're going to struggle to prove they're fake and/or the damage hasn't occurred recently.

Yes I think we do have legal cover - I’ll have a rummage in a sec.

Annie - thank you for replying. The main dealership has a report from when the car was with the first owner, detailing that the car was accident damaged. Then there is a report and photographs of the damage to the car when the salesman took it for the update just before selling to me. I think I have really good evidence that the damage pre-existed me purchasing the car. In all honestly - even if he comes back to me and says ‘I’m not paying because I think it can be fixed for £2000’ Id take £2000. If he says, ‘I’m not going to do anything’ then at least I know I’ll have to take him to court (which I will - trading standards believe I have a strong case), and I can get on with getting my car back on the road. It’s the hanging around that’s an inconvenience as I can’t do anything until I’ve given him a chance to fix it I believe - and in the meantime, I’m car-less.

I also think I need to pursue it with the RAC, but I don’t know where to start.

Did they tell you anything about the accident damage before they sold it to you? Was it damaged badly enough to change its code for insurance purposes (sorry, but fuzzy on this, just remember thinking I had found a bargain car but dh pointed out it had been in an accident as it said it had a funny code on it...) which you should ha e been using but haven’t as they didn’t tell you?

Jellydots - see what he says once he has a chance to respond. What's his online reviews and ratings like? Are there any causes for concern? It may be that he's 100% straight and will get it sorted for you, perhaps I'm just a little jaded!

Once you have a response from him or indeed I would be chasing by the end of next week to find out what's happening (as you've accepted the not in till Wednesday bit). As for the RAC I'd be writing to the chairman/chief exec personally and looking at whether taking acting against them is possible. Their "peace of mind" checks are sold on the basis of "you don't need to be a mechanic let us check your new potential car..." However I don't know if the same applies to their pre-completed checks. However even then there's the potential the RAC will take a similar view that it isn't provable this far down the line. I feel your argument, for want of a better word, will be that you took the car for it's MOT/first scheduled service and had no reason to believe there was an issue, doing all you reasonably could as an "untrained man in the street".

I would advise you to find some quotes out from the main dealer/approved workshops as well as any local trusted garages to find out how much it will cost you to put right. Potentially then you would only be claiming the costs of repair/inconvenience etc. What you will need to balance is the amount of mileage you've done in the car to date. So for example at a recovery rate of 40p per mile, if you've done 10,000 miles then the dealer could offer you the price you paid less £4,000. If the repairs are less than that you at least still have a car, or no car and only £6k to play with.

Did you buy the car in any way via finance? Even paying the deposit on credit card? If you did via Visa debit you may be able to dispute with your bank whatever was paid via Visa debit but iirc not the whole amount as would be the case with credit card payments. If a finance company has been involved then you will need to put them on notice as they have joint and several liability.

If there's anything I can do to help please feel free to ask. :)