Remembrance Sunday: 100 Years

[RedToothBrush]

This has been done a bit before on MN, but I'd thought I'd do it again, as past threads have been brilliant.

Simple question: Do you have a family story of WWI (or another war)?

Went to the Remembrance service in our local town square and even though we couldn't hear much of it I found it very emotional - much more so than previous years. Just the thought of all those mums who could never give their sons a hug again made me well up.

My grandfather served in the Second World War. He had no interest in his medals at all. But he had no objection to me trying to get them. It was a long time ago now, but I think I had to apply to the army office in Droitwich. We eventually recieved his medals , but grandad didn't even want to look at them. He hated every second that he was away. I have them and will pass them to my own son eventually.

My great grandfather was killed on the Somme, he was a tunneller, like the men in Birdsong. My great uncle was shot down over Berlin in 1943. A friend of mine who I was at school with, was killed in Afghanistan in 2012.

I don't know much about the British side of my family so I don't know what relatives fought in the wars but on my Finnish side three of my great-uncles died in WWII, in the Continuation War - the second war between Finland and the Soviet Union, which puts them on the 'wrong side' of the war though it wasn't wrong for them. The youngest of them was just 21 when he died early on in the war, his body was never recovered. The older 2 died just a couple of months before the war ended.

I have two great uncles who died in the trenches at Passchendaele - on the same ay. Both age 17.
They are commemorated at Tynecot - their bodies were never found.

Also, I have a MITZPAH brooch that I am wearing today - it says " The Lord look after me and thee when we are parted from one another" on it.
It was my great great Aunt's and her sweetheart who gave it to her, did not come back from the war.

My Great Uncle on my dads maternal side, fought in WW1, first in Ypes, died at Arras, in 2017, shot for cowardice, he was the bravest man in our family. My Great Aunt, who was 95 when she died, never wore at Poppy or watched/attended an remembrance event. She blamed Lord Haig,( poppy appeal), for his death.
When Ds1, went on school's WW1 battlefield trip in 2014, unlike all others he had no grave or name to visit, my Great Uncle was wiped from history. He bought a poppy tribute and left near to the road at a Somme battlefield. None of my Dad's family ever wore poppy's.
Granddad on dad's side was on minesweeper's in WW2, other Granddad, never fought but station in Scotland and maintained Forth Railway bridge and repaired battleships, he was a welder.
One great family friend, was a rear gunner in Shorts Sterling bombers, shot down over Hamburg in 1943, aged 21, 22nd mission.
Never wore medal, or poppy, would not talk about.
My Great Aunt always said the best way to honour the dead of WW1, especially, was to grow up realising war was evil, and never allow it to happen again.
I have heard that many WW1 survivors believed they where failed when the war to end all wars, directly lead to WW2.
I "buy" a poppy, as giving money to RBL, but never take one or wear one, it feels to do so, would disrespect my great Uncle memory,

I've been listening to the most amazing history podcast about WWI. It's an American journalist called Dan Carlin and he covers the first world war in a series called Blueprint For Armageddon, it's insanely good. www.dancarlin.com/hardcore-history-series/

bathshebaeverbusy What a sad history behind your MIZPAH brooch. Your Great Great Aunt must have treasured it.

which puts them on the 'wrong side' of the war

I think the 'wrong side' in war is simply to be someone who is at the mercy of the decisions of those with power a lot of the time. The concept of 'winners' leaves a lot to be desired for that reason. Tell a mother who has lost her children in war she's won.

My grandfather married a German woman in his later years. He bombed where she lived. Her father died when she was just 5, as fought for the nazis on the Eastern front. Before the war he was simply a baker. He was caught in the soviet advance. His body was never found. My grandfather's wife and her mother, looked to find his body with the red cross for over 40 years. They in turn ended up separated by east and west Germany for many of them.

If his body was ever found, I'd like to know. Because it meant something to someone I cared about. I can't think of him as a 'bad guy'.

It's the stories that remind you of humanity and just how ordinary the people that fought it actually were. The idea that there was an inherently evil enemy, misses this point and if we fail to realise that, we set ourselves up for a repeat.

Most people just end up on a particular side because that's what's expected of them because of the fortunes of their birth.

That's what I remember. And why I despise the all the stuff about why you must wear a poppy or talk of how wearing the wrong coat is disrespectful. Thats nonsense. Especially when there's a story in there.

Every family has their own memories and story and that's the important bit.

The National Arboretum at Alrewash (be Lichfield) is a really interesting place to visit. Monuments to so many different groups and from different battles, it is breathtaking.
My DM was a Land Army Girl and we were invited to the unveiling of the Land Army/Lumber Jill statute - it is beautiful but then I am biased!
It was a cold October day at the tail end of some hurricane or other, so also very wet and windy. Sophie Wessex was due to do the unveiling but her flight kept getting delayed due to the weather. I will never forget this group of stoic 80 & 90 year old women out uncovered in the weather waiting patiently. Some even wore their uniforms! I was humbled and so proud of my mum and her fellow LA and LJ colleagues.
It took years for these women to be awarded a medal and to be allowed representation at the Cenotaph in Whitehall.
Today I wore my mum's medal and pin with pride.

My paternal grandfather. He'd joined the territorial army regiment in his area pre-WW1 and was a Lt pre-war. He was an excellent marksman and had won at Bisley (shooting trophy) for 4 or 5 years. Because of his 'cracksmanship' he'd been used as a sniper initially, but by the time he was killed, in 1915, he was a Capt and was killed during one of the huge battles in France - a Pte in his platoon was also killed trying to save my grandfather, they died when a shell landed and exploded close to them. Sadly I don't know the name of the man who died with my grandfather. My grandfather was 38 years old when he was killed and left his wife and 5 children, one of whom was my father.

My maternal grandfather was a GP pre-WW1. I don't know so much about him, but he served as an army doctor in France during WW1. He had been mustard-gassed during that time, but survived. After the war he married and he and his wife had two daughters, my mother and her younger sister. His wife left the marriage when my Mum and Aunt were quite young - possibly when they were 4-6 years old (?) - and my grandfather was left with his two young daughters. My Mum and Aunt had a very happy life with their father, but, unfortunately because of the mustard gas attack in France his health was failing. As a GP he knew how bad it was and that he would die soon. I think he died in the 1930s when Mum & Aunt were in their early teens, leaving them orphans. It's quite telling that, after his death, they went to stay, not with their mother who had clearly lost all interest in her children many years earlier, but with legal guardians - the husband was a Col, so I can only assume that he had served with my grandfather in WW1.

Not so much in remembrance today, but thanks; my father followed in his late father's footsteps. Joined the same regiment as a territorial pre-WW2. He was also a crackshot. My Dad never, ever, ever talked about his war. He also joined as a Lt and finished as a Maj. He was a kind, calm and lovely man. But I bet he saw - and did - things that he never wanted to talk about again, because I know nothing of his war.

My mother had been a civilian nurse just pre-war, was working in a central London hospital during the Blitz (which she said was horrendous) and was subsequently seconded (because there weren't many military nurses at the beginning of the war) to a variety of military hospitals. I think she spent most of WW2 tending to military personnel.

FIL had the letter that his grandparents received saying their son (his DF) was missing presumed dead.

Their son was found unconscious on the battlefield (we don't know where), having been shot in the thigh. He was sent home to recooperate, then returned to the front line to fight again. He remembered following some of the first tanks out and said the Germans ran away.

DH's grandma (long dead) (who married the above) remembers seeing the zeppelins over Suffolk.

DH's other grandfather fought somewhere hot, we've a picture of him in the dessert. He was a tough man who didn't adapt well back into family life.

My side of the family who fought never spoke of it.

RedToothBrush Very well said. I'm sorry your grandfather's wife and her mother weren't able to find the body of her father, that is sad.

On my side my maternal grandparents' fathers both fought in WW1 and were lucky enough to return home alive, although my grandfather's father died a horrible death not too many years later as a consequence of having been gassed in the trenches. When I joined the Army myself my grandfather gave me his father's medals, papers and the chocolate tin that had been sent to the soldiers at Christmas containing a small signed copy of St John's gospel too.

I know very little about my Grandmother's father's service as she dislikes talking of war, although I do have a photograph of him on his horse on uniform.

During WW2 my maternal Grandmother's brothers fought, all but one died. I know no other details as my Grandmother will not mention the war. Ever. My maternal Grandfather fought, took part in the D Day landings and then was almost killed not long afterwards, having been shot in the head - he survived but was left with one eye and disfigured but returned to Germany and was involved in the liberation of a labour camp (the exact location of which went on to become a British Forces base and where I was posted during my own career for a few years); he wanted to remain in the Army but was medically discharged a few years after the war had ended as his health deteriorated a little. He didn't mention the war until I was a teenager, mostly as it upset my Grandmother so much; he wasn't even "allowed" to watch war films. In later years he talked to me a great deal about his experiences when my Grandmother wasn't present and even, not too long before his death, wanted to attend a Remembrance Day parade. I took him and marched with him, I looked across at him in the church and tears were silently rolling down his face.

My paternal Grandfather was an engineer and also fairly old by "fighting" standards so did not fight in WW2 - he contributed to engineering advances of equipment but remained a civilian.

I myself joined the Army and, when I did, my Grandpa gave me his medals, capbage, sgein dubh and lots and lots of photographs, a uniform epaulette and much more service - related bits and pieces along with his own father's medals and service related belongings. They are my most treasured possessions. My Grandpa also attended my passing - out parade. I completed several tours in Iraq and in Afghanistan.

My husbands' maternal and paternal sides' great grandfathers all served in WW1, his grandfathers both in WW2 (RAF), his father served a full RAF career and my husband himself is still serving in the Army.

My stepdaughter's husband is a serving member of the RAF.

I was thinking today how incredibly lucky both our families were (bar my Grandmother losing her brothers) in that all who fought had returned home - a very rare thing, especially as most were involved in some of the major battles of the wars. The mental impact of the experiences however just cannot be underestimated.

Some may find this interesting. It is about the last surviving remount centre where horses destined for the front were checked and graded before traveling by train on their way to France.
www.lbmhs.co.uk/remount-history/

I believe the Arctic Star for service on board any ship which served in the arctic circle during WW2 is a very recent one; it was issued for the first time in 2012.

By the time the Government finally decided that veterans of the Arctic convoy deserved their own medal, rather than just being covered by the Atlantic Star, there were only around 200 veterans left. Fortunately my dad was one of them, and we managed to organise for the Arctic Star to be presented by the county’s Lord Lieutenant (who was lovely and made a big thing of it).

He was in Burma just after the end of the war, picking up PoWs, and in theory could have applied for the Burma Star - he said nobody did, as it would have devalued it for those that had fought in Burma.

He had a load of stories about his time on the convoys, but never wrote them down so that’s my current mission.

I think there had been some really great and imaginative pieces of art etc in remembrance.

The pages of the sea sand portraits this weekend.
Our church had Perspex cut outs of soldiers standing and sitting in the pews for the services this weekend and we have black metal soldiers in prominent places around the town. Very moving to see.

Check out the (Gloucestershire) ghost soldiers standing over their graves in their churcguard. It is incredible, seeing pictures gave me goosebumps. Sorry cannot do the link but Google Slimbridge soldiers.
I have also seen a map of one part of Grimsby which has a poppy at every house where a soldier was lost ...

I have just Googled the Slimbridge soldiers - beautiful, very haunting.

TwoBoysandaCairn

There has been a monument created at the National Arboretum for those men shot at dawn like your Great Uncle. They would want to add his name if you contact them.x

@2BoysandaCairn

(In case you miss my previous post.)

@JosshpineDupont
Thank you, I will try and contact them.
Apart from my great aunt, who was his elsest sister, and in her nineties, no one else mentioned my great uncle.
My dad, just before he died in 1989, found out he was 17 when he signed up and was 19 when he was shot. He fought in 4 battles, injured twice, and finally couldn't cope. No mercy shot, as a coward.
He was no bloody coward. I have numerous letters refusing to pardon brave men like him from toady ministers of defence.
I always remember him on the 11/11. He was the last male in his family.
He was a hero, I can only hope my children honour his memory by continuing to oppose all war.
Sorry, I final all the who can wear the biggest poppy and most medals, so disrepectfully.

2BoysandaCairn

I'm so sorry to hear the history of your great uncle.

My dad (who was a very mild mannered man) would mention in great anger those men to me and the continuing disgrace of their treatment by the authorities. They were not forgotten by everyone.

I hope you either find that his name is already commemorated or if not that it can be added.

2Boys I was so moved to hear about how disgracefully your poor great uncle was treated. The way men with shellshock/trauma were treated brings shame on to those in authority.

He was a hero.

My maternal grandfather joined the army aged 14 in 1912 & at the outbreak of war in 1914 was one of the first sent to France. My granny was his younger second wife, following his being widowed, and he died well before I was born, but I know that it was something he never really talked about, bar the odd unguarded comment. In WWII he ran a POW camp.

My paternal great-grandfather served with honour and was disabled - I’m not certain how, but his discharge date = 10/06/1919. He was in the Kings Royal Rifle Corps.

My cousin [twice removed], however, did not come home. Lieutenant Hugo Bell Fisher of the 2nd Royal Munster Fusiliers died on the 23rd of November 1917, as a POW in a German hospital, from wounds sustained at Passchendaele. He was 19 years old.

After studying at Newry Intermediate School and the Royal Acedemical Institution, Belfast, Hugo went up to Queen's College Belfast in 1914 (aged 16) to read medicine. He joined the Officers' Training Corps on the outbreak of war; and had passed his final medical exam before turning 18 & accepting a commission with the Royal Munster Fusiliers. An account of Hugo’s death is the last entry on the site linked there; and details of the grave where he was reinterred are here.

In studying medicine, Hugo was following in the footsteps of his mother, Dr Elizabeth Bell (my great-great-aunt) - the first woman in Ireland to qualify as a doctor (& leading member of the Irish Women’s Suffrage Society). Dr Bell also served during WWI - in her case, with the RAMC in Malta. Losing her only child having been widowed fairly young must have been devastating.

I go to the Cenotaph & Field of Remembrance every year after church parade Mass (I leave a marker for Hugo & a cross in the Scout section from my Brownies) & that sea of poppies outside the Abbey is so genuinely painful-sad to see.

My dad's mum's dad was a sailor in WW1 but was already a sailor when the war broke out. I have just managed to work out that he was at Gallipoli, but nothing more.

My maternal grandmother's brother was also in the Navy but I can't find anything on him! He died shortly afterwards although we're not sure if it was spanish flu or TB.