Shocking advice from EMT

[LordPickle]

Last night I rang 111 about my DS and he ended up being blue lighted to the hospital. Whilst on the way to the hospital, I made a comment to the EMT that I was so glad I rang 111, as I hadn't been sure what to do. The EMT kinda laughed and said "Don't ever ring 111. They are nothing, they have no qualifications, they read a script and are simply ticking boxes. If you have a medical problem, call your GP and if they aren't available, call 999. Never waste time with 111."

At the time, I simply nodded (I'm obviously not going to argue with an EMT, am I?) but surely this is really bad advice to give people? I was only on the phone with 111 for 2 minutes when she said she was sending an ambulance. It seemed quite efficient. I have nothing but respect for EMTs but that comment really bothered me. Or is that a typical EMT attitude towards 111?

Can’t say I agree with that in all situations.

Ive called 111 before, out of normal GP hours (Saturday am) about something that’s wasnt an emergency but also wasn’t something I felt could wait until the Monday.

111 agreed that it’d be best to see a doctor, and were able to organise a GP appointment on the Saturday morning. GP was able to deal with the issue.

There’s also at least one urgent care centre in my area that requires patients to book appointments through 111.

I think they are unqualified and sit going through a checklist so he may not be entirely wrong.

I don't know, what they said about box ticking isn't untrue, however I do think 111 has its place.

In the case that they were sending an ambulance to you within 2 minutes of your contact though, I can't help but think that indicates you could have bypassed them and called 999 yourself.

I have worked for 111. No medical qualifications are needed however the triage software is developed by top medical experts to cover the entire county, no the staff don’t deviate from ‘the script’ however the questions are phrased in a specific way to gather certain information from the caller, nothing is left to personal opinion on the part of the call handler. They also have nurses available for advice at any point. We worked in the same office as 999, some call handlers cover both services, the pressure on 999 for genuine emergency calls is high, there’s no way they could cope with people starting to call them instead of 111, the triage system is exactly the same if you call 999 and it’s not a life or death emergency, you go through the same system and would get the same response, and the call handlers are no more medically qualified. That’s terrible advice from that EMT.

I’m truly grateful that we, in NI, still have out of hours doctors to ring. However, even they can misjudge situations. I had a tiny nip from one of my foster dogs and my hand started to swell, the next day so I was prescribed antibiotics over the phone. I phoned and spoke to three different doctors over the weekend as the hand continued to swell. Was told to elevate the arm and keep taking the antibiotics. I called into a chemist on Monday, for advice and the pharmacist was horrified by my hand. By Monday night I was on intravenous antibiotics and within a couple of hours admittance had surgery on my hand. I’m still in a lot of pain. I really think a person needs to be seen in certain circumstances. It’s so difficult as the NHS is amazing, but under so much pressure, with not enough money, time or staff.

111 can also send emergency ambulances if needed, lots of people call 111 who really should have called 999 and they get exactly the same level of emergency response where needed.

There’s more than a grain of truth in what he said.

My SIL’s appendix ruptured because she took the advice of 111 instead of going to A&E.

He has a point (ex a&e nurse here). I find they cause more problems then good overall.

I don't think they are called EMTs in the UK are they?

I have definitely heard this from paramedics, though. The idea of 111 was supposed to reduce the burden on ambulances by redirecting those with a cold, but whether it works or not, I have no idea - certainly I hear all the time of calls to 111 which end up as an ambulance call out when the person wasn't that concerned in the first place and didn't really need an ambulance.

I remember calling NHS Direct back when it was that for a friend of dodgy XP's who appeared to be fitting and they sent an ambulance, the ambulance guys were pretty unimpressed as they said the friend was putting the "fit" on and questioned why we'd had an ambulance dispatched from miles away.

I also had an ambulance sent by NHS Direct when DS1 was about 2 and had croup. By the time they arrived his breathing was much better and I felt silly.

My one experience was the same- trying to get OOH GP appointment.

Phone call 1- long 10 minute script of questions. Someone will call you back within an hour.
Phone call 2- same script of questions- have to ask you each time. Someone will call you back, ring back if worsens.
Phone call 3- worsened. Same script of questions. Someone will call you back.
Voicemail (whilst on call 3)- as you've not answered- case closed!
Phone call 4- Same script of questions. Someone will call you back within the hour.
Call back- same script of questions- demanded appointment not watch and wait.
Saw GP at OOH- sorted.
Call back at 1.30am- this is 111 calling you back- what is the problem? (7 hours after 1st call)
Me- arrrrrgggghhhhh!

I don't know many medical professionals that have positive views on the service.
But at the end of the day- it is political!

Well, I rang 111 because he started breathing rapidly and refusing to drink anything...prior to this he only had a runny nose. The woman at 111 asked me to lay him on his back and look at his chest to see if his ribs were sucking in when he breathed. I said they were and she said she was sending an ambulance.

In the future I will know to look for his ribs sucking in and I would bypass 111 if it happened again, but I just thought it was a bit crazy to give a blanket statement that 111 is a waste of time.

As for what they are called in the U.K., I'm American and I've lived in England for years but never had any interaction with paramedics/EMTs so I don't know what they're called. It's a bit of a moot point as it was obvious who I was speaking about.

UK has both paramedics and EMTs, different qualifications

I have to say, I have only used it once (bank holiday, didn't know if I needed a tetanus) and found the call handler really helpful- was off the phone in 15 minutes with an answer.

I don't think he's wrong tbh

Having seen some of the ambulance programs they have been sent out for ridiculous things and the patients didn't even know they were coming.

Alot get a lost in translation I think

Would be far more useful to have better advertised and more minor injury units or drop in clinics and he directly able to book an OOh gp appointment .

Where I am when you ring 111 you get to speak directly to a nurse now, they don't ask all the random questions any more. So definitely worth ringing.

I called 999 for my mum in the early hours of the morning last year. 78 years old history of BP issues and SVT in agony with upper thigh pain and showing all signs of a possible deep vein thrombosis.

999 suggested I wait until the GP opened at 8am and give them a call then.

OTOH we called 111 a few months later as my dad had had a fall and was feeling iffy the following morning. Purely precautionary as wasn't sure whether to bother with OOH on a Saturday morning. The coudlnt have been more helpful, sent out paramedics who took him in and he ended up having an overnight stay for one due to the bang on the head/warfarin combo.

In light of those experiences I know who I'd rather call.