Poverty myths

[SoHumble]

Some of my in-laws have really stereotyped and dismissive opinions about people in poverty. Comments like “they all have smart phones, flat screen TVs and spend their money on cigarettes”.

DH and I try to counter comments like this with a reality check, but it can be difficult to get our point across.

Could anyone share some good articles or evidence that I can look at in order to give more challenge to their comments?

Thanks

Tell them to fuck off
Oh and have a wee google

Don't bother, they will just think you are being smug and patronising. Next time the go all Jamie Oliver. Just change the subject.

Poverty and low income are 2 different things

True poverty is quite rare in this country

Ask them to define poverty and also to point you in the direction of shops that sell non flatscreen TVs.

www.bevanfoundation.org/commentary/food_low_income/

This will help with the flat screen debate!

Smart phones are cheap and pretty much a necessity these days. There is no such thing as a non flat screen tv these days.

Re cigarettes, alcohol etc, you need to look at the wider picture. People flock together, and smoking and drinking are cheap (ish) pleasures. There’s no point saving if your savings aren’t going to get you anyway, so money tends to be spent as it’s earned. Social factors are a huge issue (see also having a new baby with each new partner).

It’s very easy to write people off as the undeserving poor but it’s bullshit. There’s a much larger picture at play.

Oh honesty it’s not worth the bother, they want to believe the myths, they revel in feeling superior over people and giving their opinion on what people ‘should’ be doing.
Probably with a ‘we worked hard for our money’ thrown in for good measure.

I get the impression that true poverty is no longer 'quite rare' in this country.

Oh god they sound like my mum. DD said if she was rich she would use some of her money to help poor people but DM told her she should keep her money as the poor aren't really poor . Sadly she doesn't see beyond her own bubble.

Thanks for that article Rosevi.

Another poverty porn thread want us to all give examples of how tight things are so others can feel smug and so glad they’re not in the same boat. Hate these threads.

I get the impression that true poverty is no longer 'quite rare' in this country.

Where do you get this impression from?
The media? Tv? Government?
Because what they want you to see if very different.
What’s true poverty anyway?
Our standards of living have increased in general so surely our idea of what poverty is has changed with time too

BlackBeltInChildWrangling

Sorry I read your post the wrong way

Caitlin Moran wrote something about this a few years ago. That when you're properly skint, and living on some rough estate in a really crappy area, smoking and drinking are amongst the very few affordable pleasures to be had.

Might sound strange to the majority of us because they are frivolous expenditures; but if I couldn't go on holidays, or didn't feel confident walking into a library or a museum, then I'd probably take my pleasures where I could find them.

I don't have a TV
Because I had to sell mine to pay for my kids birthdays this year

I have a laptop
Because I'm a student and job seeking so I need one
It's old and clunky and doesn't work properly

I have a smart phone
From before I was poor and it's broken and an old model and doesn't work well

There have been times I have bought cigarettes with that money
And times I've had to go to the stop smoking clinic or buy nicotine lozenges from poundland
This is a lifetime habit I am constantly trying to pack in but still rears its head when I'm under too much stress

I have some nice clothes
But most are from charity/primark
Either way I have to do a wash nearly every day as I literally own 2 pairs of jeans

I have "designer" trainers
But they were bought in the sale and cost the same as their non designer counter parts

We eat healthy food and out sometimes
On good months, last month was shitty and I had to use the food bank. I do not feel any shame. I have donated more to food banks than I have used them.
I think my kids "deserve" the occasional happy meal etc. because they are kids and I want them to be able to socialise with their peers and
Not be ostracised

We don't own a car
Not on finance or in any other way. We catch the bus.

My kid has a tablet
Because it was cheaper than the toy she really wanted and is a cheap way to entertain her and bribe her to be good 😂

Our financial situation is set to improve shortly. When it does I will be spending my money "irresponsibly" but also putting some towards debts and savings....

So yeah, on the outside we look "normal" we look like we have everything
My kid speaks like she's a pampered princess

But the struggle is real as being in relative poverty means decisions like whether to have a holiday at all that year or attend class mates birthday parties, whether we can afford to catch the bus to see family members, sometimes whether to buy bread for toast or milk for cereal.

& my family are fortunate. Our poverty has been temporary for a few months some people are in grinding poverty for years.

I know people who live off tea and coffee so their kids can eat dinner. Who go without dental treatment so their kids can have a haircut or school shoes. & yes some of them spend £10 on a pouch of knock off tobacco to fund the most addictive habit their is, smoking. I do not think that would make a difference to their overall quality of life. Not in real terms. It would just be another stress.

No worries, Cranky17. I agree with your points, and most pps on the thread so far.

At times, with what I see and read, I wonder whether we are almost returning to Victorian levels of poverty, and attitudes to poverty from the top, in this country.

My parents are immigrants and we grew up 'poor' on an estate. They definetely didn't spend all their money drinking and smoking (fair enough my dad smokes roll ups but they both barely drink)...and we did go to libraries etc.
As a DC any free/cheap club going, I was signed up to it - there were so many more opportunities for us in a British city than in rural Italy.
A lot of my friends from school also had poor but not British parents and our experiences and parental expectations I think were quite different...especially around food and education.

Having said that, I think things are tougher now. I was a kid during the Blair years when the economy was doing well, and our house was a nice semi on a new estate with a big garden.

All TVs are flat screen these days. So Ive never got that argument about people on benefits and flat screen TVs. What are they supposed to do, watch an old fashioned box style telly instead?

I have relatives who have similar opinions and have come to realised that a lot of it boils down to their own spending habits. They are very frugal and live modestly despite being reasonably well off. When they see people they know in real life or in the media who are living in poverty and yet can still afford "luxuries" that they would not buy themselves then the judgement sets in. It's a tricky one because they just don't understand why someone that doesn't have much money would seemingly "waste" their money on these things and I guess rationally there is some logic in the argument that those with the least should be most careful with their money for their own sakes. Ultimately though I don't think my relatives appreciate how awful it would be to never have any of life's luxuries or little pleasures. I think it's one thing to choose to go without something, but quite another when you often feel forced to do so.

Just because you've not experienced true poverty doesn't mean it doesn't exist.