What causes people to become trans?

[ForeverIsALongTime]

I'm not posting in the feminism board because I want quite a varied response from people who may not share the same opinion. I've seen so many threads on here relating to transgender and it's something I really don't know much about.

I feel terribly sorry for anyone who feels they were born in the wrong body. I find this a difficult concept to comprehend because our physical exterior shouldn't have to dictate anything in our lives. It shouldn't have to determine anything more than our biology.

Do people think that it's society having separate categories for boys & girls which makes people feel like they're in the wrong body? For example, boys clothes/girls clothes, brownies/cubs etc? I know as a society there aren't so many divides between the sexes as there once was. I'm almost 30 and we had a separate boys playground and girls playground at school. I suppose if I had grown up feeling as though i would have felt more comfortable in the boys playground than the girls playground and felt more comfortable at cubs than brownies and in the boys clothes than the girls clothes, maybe I would now feel as though I had been trapped in the wrong body all those years. The real issue in that situation though would be the divides we had created, rather than the person actually having the wrong genitalia?

I may be way off the mark and I'm really hoping to be educated by some people who are more knowledgable on this topic. It's such a big issue these days and it's something I feel I should understand better than I do.

@Idontbelieveinthemoon

How did a 2 year old even know that boys have penises and girls don't?

Does a 2 year old even know the difference between boys and girls?

Personally I feel rats "horrific" description of how she would feel to wake up male doesn't apply to me or to many women. I imagine it would be brilliant to be viewed as the "default" sex rather than the defective female kind - with the associated shit of pregnancy/childbirth, periods/menopause, and the crappy sexist behaviour (or outright violence) of a large chunk of the male population towards you.

How did a 2 year old even know that boys have penises and girls don't?
Truthfully, I have no idea. I know that when my DC were 2 they had no real concept of 'boy' versus 'girl' other than the fact that when they asked where my tinkle was, I explained that Mummy is a woman so doesn't have one. But my cousin's DC was incredibly young when it started, so I can only assume it was something innate.

Does a 2 year old even know the difference between boys and girls?

I'd hazard not; they have very little sense of much outside their immediate sphere at that age. But again, the DCs cousin seemed cross with their body and cross that they had a penis from a very young age. I genuinely don't profess to know how or why; I'm as baffled about how a 2/3 year old can hate their body as the next person. But it was truthfully there from a very young age, and as someone who hasn't had any experience prior to this with trans people, I can't assume anything, really.

That's really interesting. So is the thinking amongst the family/professionals that this boy has a 'girl brain' that has ended up in a boys body? Or that the child has gender dysphoria? What do you mean when you say it has come from 'inside them'? Is the child otherwise well adjusted and happy? Does he like girl or boy toys or both? Sorry lots of questions!

The immediate family are assuming that the child has a girl's brain trapped in a boy's body - the wider family can be quite intolerant and find using the alternative names/pronouns unacceptable, particularly the older ones (grandparents, elderly aunts etc who feel the child should be disciplined out of it).

The child is generally a little quirky and struggles socially - this could be a million and one things so the immediate jump to ASD-type conditions don't necessarily follow because I honestly think that the situation with their body makes life very difficult for them; without it I'd say the child is very happy and well-adjusted. With it, it seems to almost overwhelm them sometimes because it's commented upon, judged and made a 'big' part of things. School and extracurricular clubs are challenging because they seem to want one definite 'box' for the child and really, there isn't one.

Idontbelieve the concern there is that other issues won’t get picked up on because the focus is on the trans side. I heard a psychologist (or psychiatrist, I can’t remember which) saying they thought that between 60% and 90% of trans identifying people has co-morbid psychological disorders, many of which go untreated or undiagnosed because of the focus on the trans side and the refusal to regard anything trans as being to do with mental health.

The important thing, of course, would be to not lie to this child, or anyone else in the family, that it’s possible to change sex but it sounds like that ship might have sailed.

I would have no problem at all waking up a man. I would love to feel what it's like to have all that extra strength. I don't find the idea of body hair horrific, I have plenty as it is. I have to pluck my chin and neck daily, good thing I don't suffer the vapours from one litte chin hair

The important thing, of course, would be to not lie to this child, or anyone else in the family, that it’s possible to change sex but it sounds like that ship might have sailed.

The difficulty here is that for many people, this goes against their beliefs; they accept that if child says this, there must be an element of truth behind it. If the child's parents believe they're able to change sex, the child is going to live their life as their preferred sex. And for most children, the way their parents teach them what they can and can't do will last them a lifetime.

It's difficult to discuss trans versus mental health without causing a stir, and without potentially offending people. The whole thing about homosexuality being diagnosed as a mental health condition until very recently lends itself to the idea that trans and mental health are two entirely separate things, just as homosexuality and mental health are. And I think because the world is only just realising how 'big' trans difficulties and issues (although I hate that word) are, people are reluctant to be seen as transphobic or bigoted and put the two together in an exploratory way.

Yes, I agree, but in the meantime very damaging things are happening, both individually and societally. And sooner or later people are going to be held to account for that.

Your first para demonstrates the ‘better a live daughter than a dead son’ narrative, which I find revolting (the narrative, I mean). And in the meantime the older generation in this family are being branded as intolerant, because they know black isn’t white and up isn’t down.

However, you sound clued up. Does your son know that this child can’t change sex?

Does your son know that this child can’t change sex?

No. It's not a conversation we've had yet. He's asked questions about his cousin and I've always told the truth that the cousin is very unhappy with how they were born. DS1 and 2 both call their cousin the preferred name but DS1 (13 and very certain in his own mind how he views the world) maintains that his cousin is a 'he' despite the feminine name. DS2 is younger and more flexible, I suppose, and accepts that his cousin is simply who he is. As he gets older I'm sure he'll ask more and we'll have to work out where we stand - DH and I are very much learning on the job with this and having to work out our own feelings/opinions on this before being able to discuss it appropriately with the DC.

DH is surprisingly 'woke' about this and says that the cousin 'is' a girl. I'm less willing to say that simply because I don't think it's possible to change sex, biologically at least. They're pretty huge conversations to have to have with our DC, and ones I wasn't expecting quite yet.

Your first para demonstrates the ‘better a live daughter than a dead son’ narrative, which I find revolting (the narrative, I mean)

I'm confused about this (not intended in a goady way at all) - would you explain it to me when you have time?

I technically identified as trans until puberty. I had no interest in typical ‘girly’ things. I didn’t want to put make up on, play with dolls and wear pink. I had a blue bedroom and I loved sports. I was a ‘tomboy’ so to speak but I actually just wanted to be a boy and fantasised about it a lot. Then I hit puberty, found my femininity and my identity.

Many children will be like that, we’re just too quick to stick a ‘trans’ label on them nowadays. They’re not even ‘gender confused’, they’re just children experimenting with who they are. My DD was Spider-Man for a year aged four, I didn’t question that and let her get on with it. She’s now changed and likes unicorns. I went to secondary school with people who swore they were bisexual or even gay, they are now living as heterosexuals.

We need to let children find themselves without being so quick to drag them down to the doctors to stick a label on them.

I feel that “performing gender” has a big hand in this. We had Stonewall come into our offices for a talk this week and it took all I had not to facepalm while the guy was chatting.

He introduced himself with given pronouns and then explained that his gender presentation was male as he had short hair and wore jeans and shirts. As did half of the women in the room he was addressing.

Idontbelieve sorry, not very articulate on phone! Basically, it fits in with the Mermaids narrative of absolutely affirming everything the child says, even though surely we all know it simply isn’t possible to change sex, and that if you don’t affirm the child then it will all go tits up (‘better a live daughter than a dead son’). It’s really manipulative. But parents generally don’t affirm their children’s more la-la ideas, do they? Well, I don’t. And it’s not a benign lie, like Santa or the tooth fairy, it’s (and I’ve been deleted for saying this before, but I’ll say it again) a really monstrous lie, to tell a child they can change sex when they can’t.

And yes, why this notion that children must be medicalised but adults mustn’t? Children should be surgically mitigated but adults shouldn’t be expected to whop off their cocks to be a woman. Whose driving that? Who benefits? And why isn’t everyone advocating that for children (and I’m not saying anyone on this thread is) in jail? Instead of getting an MBE and having telly programmes made about them?

I know two males and one female who have transitioned. They all have emotionally unstable personality disorder

that’s awful.

@OutPinked - yes, I knew a few girls who came out as proudly lesbian/bi in early adolescence and probably did feel that way at the time, but have been hetero by the time they were adults. I do fear that a lot of girls like that are now believing they are trans when they are not, although I also suspect the vast majority of those girls will have a rethink before going down any irreversible paths and not much harm will ultimately be done before the trend passes and people just get more comfortable with not conforming to gender stereotypes without having to make drastic changes to themselves.

Just a bit of a PSA here, bi people aren't no longer so just because they are in a hetero relationship. There are a hell of a lot more hetero opposite sex people around, stats are gonna be affected