4 year old struggling with school in afternoons, help

[SchoolHelpPlease]

DD is 4 years old (turned 4 in June) and started school in September. She has been at a private day Nursery 3 days a week since 14months old and coped fine there.

I’ve been told by DDs teacher that around 2pm DDs behaviour gets really awful, her speech becomes unintelligible, she starts crying a lot, and she doesn’t want to take part in activities. She's not naughty and doesn't hurt the other children but is irritable.

She’s always had a lunchtime nap, usually 12.30-2.30pm, and then sleeps 12 hours at night. I’ve tried putting her down to bed earlier, but I work 3 days a week (her former nursery days) and we don’t get in until 5.15pm on those days, so by the time dinner and reading is done it’s 6.30 which is close to her normal bedtime.

We tried over the summer to drop the nap but she would just fall asleep around 1 and sleep until 3 every day. After School Club let her sleep if she wants to but by the time they’ve got her from her classroom and walked down to the ASC building (it’s an offsite club run by an external company) she only gets 30 mins or so before I pick her up, and it also affects her nighttime sleep so that has a knock on affect for the next day. At the weekend she has her nap as normal and her behaviour is fine.

What can I do? I’m a single mother and need to work, and there’s no way I can change my hours, I already have a slightly later start to do morning drop off as school don’t have a breakfast club until year 2. School have said they can’t accommodate half days or part time and council won’t allow me to defer entry at all – they say if I do they can’t guarantee which school she’ll be placed in, this is one of the best in the area and is less than half a mile from home so want to keep her there.

What on earth can I do? Any tips to help her get through the day without a nap. She does have some SN which means she gets more tired more easily so that could be affecting it. My mum keeps saying we need to move her to an SN school but I really don’t want to as otherwise she’s doing well and enjoying it.

Bless her heart, she's tired. A lot of children are tired in the afternoon at the age of four. Many years ago I started school at the age of four, some children only did mornings, those of us who were there all day were given cushions and encouraged to put their heads down for an hour or so in the afternoon. Not everyone liked that because children are all different but at least it was allowed and those who didn't sleep would play or draw quietly.

It's unfortunate your daughter's school doesn't allow half days. Perhaps you could look around for a school that does.

I didn't think schools could reject part time education if the child was under 5. Might be wrong. It sounds like the best thing for her atm.

Can school not encourage her to nap? Have a little cosy corner?

Is she being properly supported during the morning or is she becoming overwrought?

Her SN is mainly physical so she only gets support for PE and walking to and from assembly, although she maybe over doing it as she does use a wheelchair pushchair at the weekends, but school won't let her use that as they don't have anyone trained and don't class it as a wheelchair.

Poor love, she will be exhausted. School is a big place when you're little and aren't quite mobile.

Have you seen her classroom? Has OT/PT came to approve the layout and height of everything etc?

I've seen the classroom, it's quite big as it's a 2 form entry school and they often put all the reception children together in this one room with both teachers etc.

OT haven't been out to the school yet, will see if they can.

Can you ditch the reading the 3 says you work (or do it first thing before school if you have time then). Ask school to send extra books home on a Friday, so you can read over the weekend.
Also, super quick dinners on working days - pasta and a reheated sauce which you can get on the table in 15 mins sort of thing?
She's exhausted, poor thing.

Have you spoken to the schools SENCO about this? They should be putting things into place to help her. If she needs a quick nap on a quiet corner then she should be able to have one

can get on the table in 15 mins sort of thing?

I am starting to use my slow cooker on days I work as I can serve as soon as we get through the door, but it does bank on me getting up before DD.

To get Golden Time on a Friday they have to do 15 minutes of reading a day so can't really cut it out 3 days a week. Can try and do it in the mornings though.

My son started school still needing a nap and continued until he was 6.

We provided a beanbag and he took himself off every afternoon for a snooze.

Gradually he grew out of it in his own time. School became much more interesting so the naps got shorter and less frequent.

The school should accommodate. She's clearly exhausted and it's a long day even without health issues.

Good luck x

School should let her nap if she still needs it. My 5 year old would take himself off and sleep in reception every now and then.

Just tell school to let her go and lie down after her lunch. If she is tired, she needs to sleep.

Just lie about the reading if it affects the “golden time” grrr I hate those bribes sometimes, both my kids are excellent readers way ahead but we don’t read every night due to work & activities.
You know your child do what you need to do. I have an end of August born child and her behaviour upto the Easter term in foundation was horrid the minute I picked her up. She was shattered it’s still up/down now as she gets overloaded by the school day even at age 7. I use a childminder for breakfast and after school on my long work days as that environment was quieter than the school club one. Is that an option? Plus definitely speak to the school, it’s supposed to be a “partnership” I’m sure they can find a quiet cushion corner for a half hr nap if it makes the school day better for all concerned and she will eventually grow out of it with time.

Dd often slept in the reading corner in reception. Can they not allow her to do that?
Also, lie about the reading.

I agree with everyone else and also wanted to suggest you check she is eating some lunch?

I feel your teacher should support her through this. She is only 4!

but school won't let her use that as they don't have anyone trained and don't class it as a wheelchair.
If your DD requires a wheelchair due to SN/a disability, it doesn’t matter what the school ‘class it as’. They need to ensure someone is trained.

They sound awful tbh and don’t seem to be accommodating her SN. It sounds like she needs to nap in the afternoon and they are not facilitating it so aren’t meeting her needs.

I would put her in nursery until next year and spend your time looking for a really good school that can meet her needs.

The fact they aren’t allowing her to nap and won’t allow her to use a wheelchair tells you everything you need to know about what type of school they are and how they will deal with issues that arise in the future.

I agree with littledinaco. Time for tough Mummy to come out and start quoting the law.

She doesn't have to be at school full time until the term AFTER she turns 5. That may not help you but they are lying to you about part time and deferring start age of this is a state school.

Look up the equality act and search for the document about disability /SEND (can't remember what it's called). If your daughter has SEND they must make "reasonable adjustments". One of those could be using the SN Buggy.

It is very worrying that they are not accomodating the basics. You are going to have a long road ahead of you with this school and I suspect many battles.

I'd cut my losses, put her back in private nursery and apply for school again next year. Sometimes having an "outstanding" school doesn't mean it's the best school.

Also, I'm sure in the EYFS it has something about allowing a child to sleep. I'd be looking for that and saying that it's in your child's best interests to be given an afternoon nap and you expect them to allow it after lunchtime play.

The school sounds v rigid. I fail to see why they "can't" accommodate part time? No legal obligation for your DD to be in school at all yet. If they are concerned re missing formal learning, I imagine they do phonics etc in the mornings so pulling her out after lunch should not be an issue. (NB My son is doing short days in Reception at the moment and the logistics are v simple, I go to the main entrance after lunch, sign the visitors book, and the secretary kindly goes and fetches him out. This does take a couple of minutes out of her and the class teacher's day, which I recognise and am grateful for. But it's not a big disruption or difficult accommodation to make.). I imagine 5 short days would be a problem due to work/childcare but a couple of early finishes on your NWDs might be that little bit of help she needs to get through the week just now? I think I would be inclined to revisit the possibility of part time, politely but firmly, with the Senco. Also napping in school, as suggested upthread.

She is eating lunch, I know she is because her behaviour is even worse when she hasn't eaten. Not sure she's eating it all though as part of her SN means she's a very slow eater (can take her half an hour to eat a cheese sandwich).

Her Nursery are very happy to take her back PT 3 days a week, and would pick her up from school and let her nap back at the Nursery they're open until 5.30pm so would accommodate my work days, I'd obviously have to pay for this but will look into it - they have said they can only do this until the end of the term before she's 5 though but that would give me until Easter. School were very reluctant to accommodate part time though saying they could offer the place to someone on the waiting list who was willing to do fulltime, it's an academy so not sure where I stand. Also council said if I take her out and defer her she'll start back in year 1 at any school in the area that has space and I won't be offered transport as it'll be my choice so it is a risk. There was no settling in days, it was full time from the start so might have been a shock to poor DDs system.

Her SN is physical, she has problems with her leg muscles and is a lot shorter and skinnier than other 4 year old, she's wearing the smallest size uniform they do and the jumper is down past her knees when not bunched up. She has good days and bad days, so some days she never seems to stop walking and then other days she appears to not be able to walk at all and really struggles. No EHCP as someone from the LA came out when she was in Nursery last year and said she'd not get it as she has no learning need - she has a slight emotional and learning delay but it's so minor you wouldn't even know if you weren't told, so not sure the school or any school have to support her.

not sure the school or any school have to support her. If she has SN then the school do have to support her. The fact they they aren’t doing this willingly and it’s something you will have to ‘fight’ for is really not the sign of a good school.

Go and look round some schools, ask them lots of questions, get a good feel for them.

I am really shocked at them refusing to use a wheelchair for her. Imagine if she was deaf and they refused to allow her to have her hearing aids in or if she was diabetic and they wouldn’t let her take insulin, would you carry on sending her there?

I think the school is being appalling. I'd mug up s 2.16 of the school admissions code and start being "that" parent. With the childcare logistics in place to support p/t it is absolutely crazy that a sensible plan is being vetoed by the school, for no obvious reason. I'm no expert but suggesting they can give away her place if she isn't there f/t from september sound very dodgy indeed...