Any employment lawyers around? - Fired for a fake reference

[FizzyPink]

This isn’t about me, it’s a very good friend I used to work with.

Earlier this year I left a company where there was an extremely toxic environment and there was a woman, let’s call her Emily who had gotten where she was through various friendships, sleeping with the boss etc. I was fairly good friends with her until I realised she was totally back stabbing and used everything she could to get one over everyone.

When I started she ran a small team and once told me that if you didn’t know what you were doing like her you just needed to hire good people, like Bob in her team who was much more knowledgeable and competent than she was.

Fast forward two years and Bob is no longer in her team and she has started a bit of a vendetta against him as she’s jealous of the standing he now has in the company and how well regarded he is internally.

Bob has now left and gone to work in a company with my old boss who was made redundant over a year ago after Emily was very open about the fact she hated him and was actively trying to get him fired. Once again he knew a lot more about the industry than she did.

Bob has worked at the new company for a week, is doing really well and loves it. On Thursday his new boss received a phone call from Emily under the guise of a reference which hadn’t been requested, telling him lots of untruths about how terrible Bob was.

Bob has now been fired following this phone call and both the MD and HR at the previous company are denying anyone made this phone call and saying they can’t help him as he’s no longer an employee.

My thoughts are there actually isn’t much he can do about it if the new company have believed Emily but I just can’t believe someone can get away with something like this!

Any advice?

Is there any proof that Emily made this phone call.

Well you could tell the MD and HR it was Emily - seems to be a crucial piece of the puzzle they're missing. Do you have a whistle lowing policy?

*whistleblowing

Not for the OP to provide proof - it's for the company to investigate.

This happened at a company I worked at.

Unfortunately you need proof of the call.

Whats the official reason given they are firing him?

I am not an employment lawyer; but I believe that he could submit an FOI to the new company to get the contents of the reference and then, if they are factually untrue, he could pursue Emily.

The caveats to this are that a phone reference is going to be much harder to get proof of; as it will require someone to have made notes and even then it involves a third party and gives Emily plausible deniability.

Also, if she posed things as her opinion, she's probably okay. My understanding is that your friend can only really challenge things that he can prove to be untrue.

Thanks so much for all the responses. The only proof that Emily made the call is that she said who she was to the new boss. But playing devils advocate really that could have been anyone and of course she will deny it to the old company.

If the old company can deny, in writing to the new company, that the call originated from their company you would hope the new company would consent to do a new reference request to HR and use the result. It is very poor to sack him outright without further investigation.
But they can. And if the new company feels there is enough of a question over his performance that they are not prepared to give him a fair chance there may not be much he can legally do.
Bob should not be concerned with proving who made the call, only that it was made maliciously and without the knowledge of the old company.

Bob needs to find out exactly why he was dismissed.

If they're firing someone on the basis that he originally provided a false reference and the truth has since come to light (in their eyes, at least), they should have taken comprehensive notes of the call and of their decision-making process.

I'd also expect in this situation that they'd discuss Emily's call and her claims with Bob before making a final decision to dismiss him - it would be pretty unreasonable to receive a random unsolicited call from a stranger who says 'Bob is a rubbish worker' and fire Bob on the spot as a result, with no discussion or further investigation.

Usually, you'd receive a conditional job offer subject to references, then the company would confirm to the worker that they've taken up satisfactory references (and that the offer is therefore unconditional) before starting work. I can't see how they let Bob start before they were happy with his references, so I assume they're accusing him of having provided a false reference originally and that Emily revealed this?

Once he's got all the facts, he should speak to an employment lawyer, but he really needs to find out the grounds on which he was dismissed first as this all sounds rather odd. He may have a claim for unfair dismissal against the new company and/or a claim for damages from the old employer if the reference was untrue or misleading, but he needs to know the details first.

Even if he can’t do much, he should speak to the old md etc, say this is what happened, and I would like an official reference from you / this company so that I’m employable.

So your old boss who now works with the new company also fell foul of this woman? Could he/she help out and tell the new company that they need to be incredibly wary of what Emily tells them and to judge Bob on his own merits as this reference could well have been made maliciously?

You could provide an objective view to the new company - they are not interested in Emily, and won’t bother her, but your side of the story might persuade them to give Bob a chance.

Sorry to drip feed, just to clarify a few points.

• the new company did not ask for a reference, Emily called them of her own accord and gave the reference purely out of malice
• my old boss who now works for the new company did raise this but apparently is now being held at arms length from proceedings and as he was redundant for a long time before getting this job is wary of getting too involved
• Bob was given and opportunity to write and email to the new boss and explain the situation but they still made the decision to fire him
• He has got in touch with our old company who have said it didn’t come from them but won’t help him now he’s an ex-employee

Hopefully that’s clear but thank you all so much for the advice, it’s so helpful and Bob is extremely grateful!

Obviously, not knowing the details (what Emily said, Bob's response, how crucial this info is in relation to the job, etc), it's difficult to know whether the new employer had sufficient reason to dismiss him.

Obviously, I'm not suggesting that you post the details, OP, but I'd advise Bob to speak to an employment lawyer or Citizen's Advice.

If they've let him start the job and it was no longer conditional upon references, then what they've found out from Emily must have been pretty serious if they're willing to just dismiss him based solely on that.

If the new employer has acted reasonably given all the facts (that they believe to be true), Bob should go after the old company (formally, not just by calling up his old HR contact) and if the new company hasn't acted reasonably, he could possibly bring a claim for unfair dismissal.

As shit as this is for Bob, I wouldn't want to work for a company who think an unsolicited phone call and no proof, were enough of a reason to fire someone.