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Original poster

Is a tutor the only way to pass 11+

54 replies

Jemimafuckingpuddleduck · 02/10/2018 14:11

My daughter who has just turned 10 and is in year 5 has being talking to me a lot about secondary school options, I get the feeling it’s hot talk in her class atm with all the open days coming up and so know a few of her friends have just got tutors to help them sit the 11+

DD is my middle daughter with her sister already started the local comprehensive high school, and she is absolutely loving it and that school was a really good fit for her.

DD2 is very academic and is naturally good at maths and English she is also very athletic and sporty and competes most weekend with various clubs.

With that in mind we have started looking at the local grammar school which has an excellent ofstead report and an amazing PE department.

Having decided not to put DD 1 through the 11+ we really have no experience of what it entails or what preparation is needed, if I’m honest I was really surprised to find out that DD2’s classmates are already picking and visiting schools and starting to get things under way for the exam, especially bearing I’m mind they have near enough another 2 years to go before they go to big school!

Ideally we would have loved to get DD2 a tutor but being one of 3 just don’t think we can stretch to it.

Is it vital for passing the exam?

I’m wondering how unusual it is for a child to sit it, pass by just doing some extra pass papers and little help from parents....

Also wondered what’s covered in the test, (and, I’m guessing by a tutor) is it not taught in year 5?

I can’t lie I’m finding it all a little intimidating for my DD that some of her peers have and have had tutors twice a week for the last couple of years to prepare them for the 11+. She is naturally clever but I don’t want to put her through something that she has no chance at because she hasn’t had the same level of tutoring/teaching than everyone else!

I also wondered about prices of tutors, I have heard from a few parents that tutors are around the £30ph market here...

Is that normal, is there a way to bring that down? Online tutoring, student looking to earn some pocket money or would I need someone that really knows what they are doing...

HELPConfused

OP posts:
Mumski45 · 02/10/2018 16:15

This page will give you some free downloadable familiarisation papers for GL.
You can also buy more packs of each type of paper from them but check as not all schools use verbal reasoning and non verbal reasoning tests.
this page

FunSponges · 02/10/2018 16:22

On MN, nearly all will have passed without a tutor. I don't find this representative of RL though and all those I know who went to grammar school were tutored. It's not, as many mistakenly believe, to coach them into passing an exam. The content of the exams in our area are not taught in Year 5 and often not in Year 6. DS was doing year 7/8 level maths in his tutoring. His school are also very 'happy to be in the middle' so he was never sufficiently challenged and was actually behind when he started tutoring, despite always being among the top few children at school. He very quickly caught up though.

It's about teaching content that is in the exam and exam technique. Personally I wouldn't have done it at home as I don't have the patience or experience to do this. The tutor was brilliant and DS enjoyed the challenge of work more suited to his capabilities. If they will struggle with the level of the work, then grammar school wouldn't be suitable.

FunSponges · 02/10/2018 16:25

We also just did 1 lesson a week thought year 5. I wouldn't have done more than that.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

11+ Exam General education Primary education Tutoring
Mrsnutellatoast · 02/10/2018 16:59

Yes, all mumsnet children pass after practicing a couple of papers. Sometimes I think it’s a strategy to put people off tutoring and therefore killing off some competition Wink

JacquesHammer · 02/10/2018 17:02

Sometimes I think it’s a strategy to put people off tutoring and therefore killing off some competition

How would that work? If they’ve passed without a tutor they’re already in, competition doesn’t matter Grin

Mrsnutellatoast · 02/10/2018 17:03

Yes, your child could do this after a couple of papers. Must be a genius. Back in the real world an averagely smart child needs to be shown how to approach this type of questions without freaking out during the exam.

Is a tutor the only way to pass 11+
JacquesHammer · 02/10/2018 17:08

Yes, your child could do this after a couple of papers. Must be a genius. Back in the real world an averagely smart child needs to be shown how to approach this type of questions without freaking out during the exam

NVR is part of the curriculum at her school. No need to do additional tutoring.

Ooforfoxsakeridesagain · 02/10/2018 17:09

Mine did an hour a week from Easter with a friend. Mostly practice papers. I’ve got four DCs and giving full attention to one child was pretty impossible. I also didn’t want to be banging on about coming to get it done. Far easier for them to sit at my friends table.

Very, very few people do no preparation at all. Whether the tutoring takes the form of a paid teacher, or running through practice papers, some practice is necessary. They are very much a test of speed and accuracy. My feeling is GL less so (CEM has a lot of questions in a short time).

Go and look at the schools and decide if it’s something you are interested in. Get the books and do some practice. I would recommend doing a mock exam, so you can both get a feel for it. The queuing up, toilets etc. Useful.

But at the end of the day, children are very used to sitting in a classroom taking a test.

Steer clear of the GS conversations at school. Madness lies that way.

Oh and on results day, steer well clear of the playground.

Mrsnutellatoast · 02/10/2018 17:10

But you do realise it’s not a typical set up? I’ve never seen a primary state school where NVR is a part of the curriculum.

Ooforfoxsakeridesagain · 02/10/2018 17:11

Also, exam technique is really important. They need to know to move on, don’t spend too long on one question, fill in any blanks randomly if they are out of time. That sort of thing.

JacquesHammer · 02/10/2018 17:12

But you do realise it’s not a typical set up? I’ve never seen a primary state school where NVR is a part of the curriculum

I didn’t say it was Confused

But then maybe I’m just trying to stave off the competition Wink

JacquesHammer · 02/10/2018 17:14

Although interestingly 4 Girls from DD’s class took the exam, 3 had tutors. None of whom got in.

So if you are going to pay for a tutor make sure it’s going to add value and be worthwhile otherwise your child slogs away however many times a week for nothing.

Original poster
Jemimafuckingpuddleduck · 02/10/2018 17:19

@Mumski45 thanks so much that’s a great help, I will look further and check the NV and NVR.

Those whose children did have tutors or those that you know that have can I ask how much the going rate is for a tutor?

OP posts:
Mrsnutellatoast · 02/10/2018 17:37

Where do you live Jemima? I am paying 60 per hour but it’s probably because I live in central London and the tutor comes to our house.

Petalflowers · 02/10/2018 17:42

There’s a really good website called elevenplusexams.co.uk

11+ website

It provides good tips and advice, including relevant information to your area. The forum section helped and supported me a lot many years ago.

You don’t have to have a tutor. WH Smith’s and other bookshops all sell 11+ books and guides.

Different areas cover different subjects. In Kent, state schools are not allowed to tutor for the 11+. Not sure about other areas.

Petalflowers · 02/10/2018 17:44

In the area where I live, the majority had tutors, and those that didn’t usually did papers at home. Most did it throughout year 5.

llangennith · 02/10/2018 17:47

If your DD needs a tutor to get her through the 11+ she may well struggle at the school.

Petalflowers · 02/10/2018 17:54

unfortunately, Llan, the 11+ content is not covered by normal state schools (in Kent). It includes non-verbal reasoning and verbal reasoning which is not taught in school. Also, when my dcs did it, the maths content was higher than what was covered in school, and included some year 7 maths.

I agree that not every pupil is suited to Gs, and some kids who are tutored do struggle in Gs. However, you wouldn’t take a driving test without having lessons first, and the same principle applies.

Ooforfoxsakeridesagain · 02/10/2018 18:19

It’s about £30 an hour here in the North.

hopefullyhelpfully · 02/10/2018 18:32

You'll get loads of people with naturally really bright children, or in areas with 1/3 grammar school provision saying it's not necessary as their child passed without. Also a lot of posters on these threads have children who come from prep school where they get a lot of exam tutoring. However, if you're in an area with a lot of competition for places and/ or your child is perhaps not an automatic pass then frankly it helps. The problem is that lots of other children just as smart as your child are tutored, which does give them a slight edge in passing the exam.

My friend did it herself with books and online resources but it did involve doing 20-30 mins a night and a couple of hours at the weekend for nearly a year.

ineedtostopbeingsolazy · 02/10/2018 18:34

Well I've no idea if your dc will pass with or without a tutor but you need to do something with them.
Most will have been extensively tutored regardless of posters on here saying they only did a few practice tests.
They need to know what to expect and have at least a vague idea of how to answer it.
I wouldn't sit an exam without revising so I certainly wouldn't do that to my child.

And it's not true that if you tutor for the test you need the same level of tutoring throughout their schooling there. My 3 dc all were tutored and went to/go to grammar they never had any tutoring after the test and they did very well. I believe you can only tutor a child to meet their potential and that gives them an excellent base to learn further in secondary school.

BonfiresOfInsanity · 02/10/2018 18:37

The 11+ content varies hugely from area to area. Bucks now has Comprehension, SPAG, VR, Maths, NVR, spatial reasoning and 3D reasoning in it. Bucks schools are not allowed to do anything in relation to teaching 11+ stuff other than normal curriculum. If you don’t do some familiarisation. work at home or with a tutor then I think you’d need to be a super bright child to pass these days. It is perfectly possible to do stuff at home with them, you can buy practice books and tests online or at bookshops - you just need a child who doesn’t mind being told what to do by their parents, if you can afford an hour a week in a small tutor group it might help keep your sanity! 😄

bugaboo218 · 02/10/2018 19:13

It depends on area and the content of the 11 plus, but realistically I think you will need a tutor for your Daughter.

Forget all of those people, who say their child passed 11 plus successfully without tuition or only by doing a few bond or GL papers. In my experience this is not how it happens in RL, well certainly not in our area. Most children I know, who sat 11 plus and passed were tutored from year 4/5 or did papers/ books weekly.

Demand for a place at GS is high and it is ultra competitive! Tutoring will give your Daughter the edge and help her with her exam technique.

Here, state schools do not teach NVR/ VR as part of the year six curriculum. Only the local prep schools do and the majority of the children attending the local prep schools start their prep at the end of Y2

Most parents, rightly or wrongly depending on your own view point will give their child a competitive advantage when it comes to attempting to secure a place at GS.
Fair no? However, life is not fair and your Daughter will get one shot at her eleven plus!

dialecticalmaterialism · 02/10/2018 19:40

We’re in Kent and my DS has been prepped at his prep school and tutored an hour a week for year five. I’ll know next week if this was a successful approach. I don’t need to wait until next week to know that the system is unfair.

Petalflowers · 02/10/2018 19:59

Good luck Dialect.

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