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Original poster

Physician's associate career (or nursing?)

82 replies

ladybirdsaredotty · 01/10/2018 13:02

I had a thread a while ago about possibly training to be a children's nurse and you lot were so helpful. I've mainly been put off doing that although a bit of me really wants to do it (I do a related job and love aspects of it). Anyway, my local uni now runs a Physician Associate Studies masters which I could potentially apply for (although my 1st degree is old so I would need to check). Happy to stand corrected but it seems like Physician Associates do specific tasks usually done by doctors and it's a way to save the NHS some cash on doctors and senior nurses (they start at band 6 or 7 but it's quite a flat career structure). As I have 3 DC under 7 I am keen to try to do a qualification that will result in a good job but I am a bit worried that, as the role is fairly new, the whole idea may get shelved, or there will be an excess of graduates chasing very few (my local trust has only just advertised for its very first Physician Associate roles). I am wondering if nursing may be the way forward after all. Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks for reading Smile

I have a genuine interest in both of these careers, just trying to work out what's the best way forward for my family Smile

OP posts:
DreamingofSunshine · 03/10/2018 09:59

ladybirds it's two years on top of other training though, as it's a master's you need to have a previous degree.

I think it's a great way to build capacity in the NHS.

Original poster
ladybirdsaredotty · 03/10/2018 10:04

Sleeping Interesting, thank you. Hope your DS is ok.

Dreaming yes, I suppose that's true. Thank you.

I'm still dithering! This is like choosing a pram all over again Grin

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SleepingStandingUp · 03/10/2018 10:33

Getting there. We loved her to pieces, she had a really good rapport with the staff and I had to have it pointed out ot me by a junior doctor that this woman wasn't a tally a doctor as people just don't understand the differences.
She's back at our hospital now, not that we need her but I'm very glad for our hospital as she's lovely

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Defrack · 03/10/2018 13:12

Yes op, you won't be looked down on at all.

Theoretically you would have done 5 years at uni. 3 years undergraduate and 2 years post graduate, so would have spent more time than nurses at uni

ruby29 · 03/10/2018 13:40

Not wanting to be the voice of doom but I would be cautious about entering an NHS career. The Forward View outlines workforce plans and I'm sure there will be increasing opportunities for a PA.

In General Practice this is to try and cut costs but also because of shortage of GPs and posts sitting empty. You have to wonder if you want to do a job that GPs are leaving/ not applying for ,and for less money...

Not so sure about the hospital based roles.

However I've worked in the NHS for over 20 years and am probably a grumpy old cynic!

You certainly wouldn't be looked down upon by Medical staff.

I don't want to put you off , there are many positives of a clinical job. I just think the NHS is in a very turbulent state to be entering!

Original poster
ladybirdsaredotty · 03/10/2018 17:23

SleepingStandingUp Flowers glad he's getting there. Thank you for that insight Smile

Defrack thank you. I suppose it's the relative lack of clinical experience to begin with that worries me a bit...but I am a worrier!

Ruby that's interesting, I hadn't thought about the GP roles from that perspective. Also, I welcome your view as a grumpy cynic! This is just the sort of stuff I don't want to come as a surprise to me if I do apply for the course Smile

OP posts:
fukkigucci · 03/10/2018 17:38

I’m in the US. I have 3 kids so visit the paediatrician somewhat regularly. And I refuse to see the PA. I’ve used them in the past, and they never got the diagnosis right, and just seemed like they didn’t really know what they were doing. Ie, diagnosed croup that was a virus. Diagnosed athletes foot which turned out to be something more severe that needed antibiotics

Original poster
ladybirdsaredotty · 03/10/2018 18:24

fukki that is the sort of thing that worries me, to be honest-that wouldn't have the knowledge and experience appropriate for making diagnoses. Thanks for the reply Smile

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fukkigucci · 03/10/2018 18:46

It just seems like a weird sub field for purposes of saving money. I dont think the field will go away though, so might as well qualify as one and get paid more than a nurse!

Original poster
ladybirdsaredotty · 03/10/2018 22:17

fukki agree with all of that! Still not sure really, though...

OP posts:
NicoAndTheNiners · 03/10/2018 22:25

I got offered a place on a PA course 2years ago and turned it down as I was worried about not getting a job when qualified. I don’t see jobs advertised for them on the nhs website. Whether they’re employed word of mouth and it doesn’t get as far as adverts I don’t know.

NicoAndTheNiners · 03/10/2018 22:28

My thoughts were that it would be cheaper for the nhs to train a nurse up as an advanced practitioner. Quicker to train them and they can prescribe. I don’t think PAs can prescribe yet?

Though obviously that exacerbates the shortage of nurses.

DreamingofSunshine · 03/10/2018 22:28

ladybirds have you spoken to a working PA? I spoke to a previous student at an open day I went to and I found that really helpful.

I think it's natural to second guess a career change/university course as a mature student, it feels like there's a lot at stake.

I acknowledge what fukki is saying but I've had doctors, nurses and dentists misdiagnose me many times, it happens in medical situations.

Original poster
ladybirdsaredotty · 03/10/2018 22:33

Nico totally know what you mean. I've been keeping an eye on this for my local trusts and they have only just advertised for their very first PAs...

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Myrnafoy · 03/10/2018 22:35

I’m a nurse and know 2 colleagues who are currently training to undertake this role in critical care and also on the medical wards. There was I believe a lot of competition for the posts and both have many many years of practical experience as senior nurses - just bear this in mind

Myrnafoy · 03/10/2018 22:36

Many of the nurses who are training for this have already done nurse prescribing previously

Original poster
ladybirdsaredotty · 03/10/2018 22:37

And yes, my thoughts too about nurses. Before I realised that this course was a possibility, I was considering applying for child branch nursing with a view to (eventually) becoming an advanced nurse practitioner. That feels like a more authentic way to do it somehow, although I acknowledge that I don't really know what I'm talking about!

OP posts:
Original poster
ladybirdsaredotty · 03/10/2018 22:39

Dreaming no I haven't, I will try and speak to someone. I've been to a recent nursing open day but need to look into the PA one!

OP posts:
Original poster
ladybirdsaredotty · 03/10/2018 22:41

Myrna that's really interesting, thank you. Seems totally sensible for people with a nursing background to be employed over people without that, especially given the prescribing.

OP posts:
FormerlyFrikadela01 · 03/10/2018 22:52

As a nurse I wouldn't feel resentful of PAs but I do question why any trust would spend money on this new role when we are in the midst of a nursing retention crisis... lack of clinical development opportunities is a big driving force for many leaving the profession.

As it stands I know my trust does not have this role yet and I receive daily nhs jobs emails for band 6 and above for my region and can't say I've ever noticed the roles advertised so I'd be worried about that personally.

Myrnafoy · 03/10/2018 22:56

So my colleague for example has worked in ICU for years as a nurse. She’s probably half way through her training to become a PA. She spends 2 days a week at uni then 3 days on ICU /HDU. Although she’s done alot of relevant post grad nursing courses and obviously has years of practical experience nursing critically ill patients, she has found the academic side of it most challenging - mainly the biology and chemistry stuff that we nurses don’t do in as much detail.

Myrnafoy · 03/10/2018 22:58

Sorry pressed post too quick ! So if you’ve already got a degree in biological sciences that might help as you’ve already got the basic grounding

MrsFionaCharming · 03/10/2018 23:02

Myrnafoy are you mixing up PAs with Advanced Critical Care Practioners? Lots of my colleagues have confused the 2 when I said what I was going to train as, and sounds more like what you’re describing.

Original poster
ladybirdsaredotty · 04/10/2018 10:37

Myrnafoy a 2.1 in bio sciences is a requirement of the course I'm considering applying for.

Formerly I think PAs would maybe be cheaper overall than advanced nurses to train/pay?? No idea. But I agree, it seems odd considering the nursing recruitment/retention crisis. Yes, I'm worried about job opportunities although these are supposedly set to increase...

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NicoAndTheNiners · 04/10/2018 16:01

Well two years ago they said the same to me about opportunities increasing and if I’d believed them I’d have qualified by now. I still don’t see jobs being advertised and I work in the nhs and I’ve never come across one.

Remember the unis want bums on seats and fees paid. Take anything they say with a pinch of salt and do your own research.