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Original poster

School isn't doing a very good job in tackling this...

46 replies

KungFuPandaWorks · 28/09/2018 17:13

My friends daughter is currently in year 4. Since term has started there has been one child (B) who has quite literally terrorised the class.

flipping tables
throwing tables and chairs
physically attacked 6 members in the class
throwing work books and children's work
screaming foul language
having to be physically removed when her tantrum happens

Many complaints have been made, the teacher has acknowledged that something will be done but can't comment when.

From Monday - Wednesday the child in question attacked the same pupil (L) each day. Varying from punching her in the back of her head to clawing down her face and neck.

Ls parents went in for a meeting yesterday, and was told a strategy will be put in place from Monday, she can't tell her what strategy as she hasn't informed the other child's parents. Ls parent suggested if this child is SEN could they not get a TA in the class for help, the headteacher responded that the girl in question has no SEN and is not statemented so it would be pointless in allocating her a TA. The headteacher asked Ls mum to have faith and let her sort this out. Ls mum pointed out it wasn't just the attacking of her daughter, but also how her education is being affected due to the outbursts. Headteacher promised by Monday this will be sorted.

Roll on today leaving school, it turns out the teacher decided every pupil in the class should make B a card, because B is quite upset and if the class makes her nice cards, B might stop attacking.

My friend and other parents are furious at this approach, L never recieved an apology of B after being attacked 3 days in a row yet they made B one!

Is this a normal approach? Is there anything else my friend can do as it just seems nothing is working.

OP posts:

CallingDannyBoy · 28/09/2018 17:27

Sounds like a really shit approach. The child B needs support and the other children need to not only be safe but also feel safe. It is irrelevant whether B has SEN or not if they need additional support (and it sounds as though they do) they need some in there. If B is flipping tables what do they do? Do they get all the other children out? How are they keeping them safe. If the teacher is dealing with B they aren’t teaching. The Head sounds weak and has no idea how to manage B. I would suggest all the parents go on and ask how they are going to safeguard their child and keep mentioning safeguarding. B needs support and help as this isn’t going to get better.

Sirzy · 28/09/2018 17:30

I love the idea that School could just magic up a TA!

Sometimes it takes time to find the best approach to whatever is going on. There isn’t an easy fix

CallingDannyBoy · 28/09/2018 17:33

To add I worked in a school where some pupils could have similar behaviour and the approach was to have 1-2-1 with the child, work out why the child was behaving this way (using outside support if needed) but also have very firm boundaries in place. When the child did behave well praise this. If the child was being dangerous to other children there was a plan in place and immediate action taken to safeguard other children and disrupt them as little as possible. There was no writing of cards by the other children to make them feel better.

Holidayshopping · 28/09/2018 17:37

Making a card sounds ridiculous.

Asking them to magic up a 1:1 is sadly equally ridiculous and not going to happen. There is no money-I’m sure everyone has seen the Head teacher protests today-this is just the sort of thing that is going to get worse and worse if nothing is done at a much higher level.

MaisyPops · 28/09/2018 17:39

What a shit storm.

Fine, a child with complex behavioural needs may require a different approach but I can't believe the school are seriously suggesting the class write B cards. What's that teaching them: when someone is violent and verbally abusive your role is to be shower them with praise, hugs and kisses and hope that nezt time if you show enough love maybe they won't be violent?
Real healthy.

There comes a point where schools have to say that the safety and right to an education for 29 other children is the line in the sand. If all is as in the OP and there's not a massive drip feed then school are handling this badly.

(But lol at the idea of school magicing a TA out of nowhere)

anotherangel2 · 28/09/2018 17:39

Where do you suggest the School fund the 12k plus pension contributions, insurance etc for a TA?

Sirzy · 28/09/2018 17:40

But it can’t all be in the OP because she has no idea at all of the back story!

WhatInTheWorldIsGoingOn · 28/09/2018 17:41

I’m a primary teacher and I’m afraid that if my child was physically attacked 3 days in a row then they wouldn’t be attending school again until school could ensure their safety. It is completely and 100% unaccepatable for children to be attacked at school. I have worked in city schools and it wasn’t allowed to happen. Even with 5 or 6 children in the class who had violent tendencies.

WhatInTheWorldIsGoingOn · 28/09/2018 17:43

Unacceptable!

And as for finding a TA, one will have to be pulled from another class until an acceptable solution is found.

CallingDannyBoy · 28/09/2018 17:43

Maybe the school needs to look at reallocating a TA then? If a child is throwing chairs and tables there is a risk that someone will be seriously hurt. If the teacher is dealing with the child who is looking after the rest of the class because you should be removing the child to somewhere safe? Or they have to get the HT each time to provide the support. Yes it takes a lot of time and thought to work out what is happening but it can’t be at the expense of the other children in the class. I agree about funding - schools cannot keep on like this.

Original poster

KungFuPandaWorks · 28/09/2018 17:44

Yep.... she was expecting the head to have a spare TA walk out of the cupboard right there and then.

In all honesty this wasn't the point of my post. It was about what other methods can Ls mum take and other parents.

Sirzy I'm not quite sure what you're problem is. Who doesn't know the back story?

OP posts:

Holidayshopping · 28/09/2018 17:46

In all honesty this wasn't the point of my post. It was about what other methods can Ls mum take and other parents.

L’s Parents could find a new school for L.

Sirzy · 28/09/2018 17:46

You don’t. You don’t know what the history of the child in question is. You don’t know what the school is doing. You don’t need to know either of those things.

Yes School should be taking steps to protect ALL the children but things take time to be put into place.

NonaGrey · 28/09/2018 17:47

I’d be volcanically furious if I was L’s parent. My child would not be writing an apology card to a child who repeatedly attacked her.

I’d be complaining to the Governers and the LEA.

Original poster

KungFuPandaWorks · 28/09/2018 17:47

Holiday

That's a last resort for her. She's gone through nursery up to year 4 with these children, why should she leave because the head teacher isn't really doing much in sorting B out?

OP posts:

PurpleAndTurquoise · 28/09/2018 17:48

At our school there isn't a TA in every class and those that are in school are part time and mainly do interventions. They wouldn't be able to shadow a child.
School cannot tell you if a child has SEN or not or what needs they have or what interventions or sanctions. are going on already.
Schools are at breaking point. Understaffed and under funded with staff underpaid.

Original poster

KungFuPandaWorks · 28/09/2018 17:48

Sirzy

You don’t. You don’t know what the history of the child in question is. WRONG You don’t know what the school is doing. not much by the looks of it You don’t need to know either of those things

OP posts:

CallingDannyBoy · 28/09/2018 17:49

The only thing you can do is apply pressure to the Head, and mention safeguarding every single time. Get it confirmed in writing and if there is no resolution make a complaint and follow the complaint process. Or move your child.

Ultimately what will happen is that 3/4 parents will move their children and the school loses £9k £12k in funding and then they will have to lose a TA.

ballsdeep · 28/09/2018 17:50

I understand things need time to be put into place but having a child physically abused in your class is unacceptable. There may be a back story but the school aren't handling it well and allowing her to physically hurt another child isn't the solution

Original poster

KungFuPandaWorks · 28/09/2018 17:53

That's everybody's point ballsdeep. The parents aren't expecting solutions over night but these complaints about B have happened since the first day back. In parents eyes not much is being done because she's ruling the classroom and in doing so upsetting the class. I think it's the card situation that has upset a lot of parents.

OP posts:

Original poster

KungFuPandaWorks · 28/09/2018 17:57

But obviously some of the parents don't know if the card situation is acceptable and they're just having a skewed opinion over everything B has done.

OP posts:

Jellyonawonkyplate · 28/09/2018 18:01

Exactly this.

AnneLovesGilbert · 28/09/2018 18:19

This reminds me of that horrific kids book Bad Bunny.

TheSmallClangerWhistlesAgain · 28/09/2018 18:22

It's a safeguarding issue if B is that violent. Sounds like B, for whatever reason, cannot cope with mainstream school at the moment.

rosablue · 28/09/2018 18:48

They need to get in writing that the school are repeatedly failing in their duty of care to safeguard the pupils that are in the same class as B.

Once this is in writing they are legally obliged to do something serious about it - it gets noted in OFSTED reports and the like. Whereas if you just complain and call it bullying or disruption or something else that means the same although you are expecting them to treat all these words equally, only 'safeguarding' and 'failure in their duty of care' have legal weight behind them...

so - use it!

Make sure you outline what has happened, the effects on the children (not just L but her parents need to do this too) but those in the class watching events unfold, being scared/worried/etc.

Explain that you have already complained to the school and their solution was to make cards for B which you found an illogical (particularly as B was not made to apologise) and upsetting reaction by the school that seemed to dismiss all those pupils who had been harmed by B and showed that the school did not appear to take the issues seriously.

Then outline your expectations in order to safeguard the children going forward - that B is kept away from other children, member of staff always nearby to jump in as required, proper sanctions when she hurts others, apologies from B to those she hurts and so on.

Point out that this is urgent given the frequency of the attacks and their seriousness and as such you expect the school to deal with this immediately as well as putting in long term measures, and that while you understand the need to protect B's privacy, they also need to understand that they need to protect the safety of the pupils in their care and need to tell you the measures that they are undertaking to safeguard your children, particularly given their failure to deal with this so far.

Maybe point out that if they are unable to guarantee the safety of your children, as responsible parents you will be keeping your children off school until they can - and that you will expect the to authorise this absence because you do not want to have your children out of school but their failure in their duty of care to safeguard your dc means that you are left with no other option to keep your dc safe. You would all need to agree to do this (assuming it's possible to take them out for a few days!) - if the entire class didn't turn up for a few days it would play hell with their attendance figures and might make them take notice - plus ofsted/council etc will notice. Hopefully the threat of this would be enough rather than having to go through with it though!

put in dates when you expect updates, meetings, reviews etc.

Finally copy it to the chair of the governors and the appropriate person at the council (education officer? not sure - the council will be able to tell you).

Then make sure that every time there is an incident that happens in school, as many people as possible email in pointing out their failure to safeguard their dc and the effects on the dc - create a big big paper trail. Consider sending in a group letter as well - so that they can't fob you off and say that you're the only one that is complaining.

If the child does have some sort of special needs then lots of complaints will help the school to document the issues in order to try to get more support. If not - and B is just kicking off because she can - even more reason to get it severely nipped in the bud asap!

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