My son says awful things about himself

[ByeGermsByeWorries]

My son is nearly 8, and has recently diagnosed asd. Recently he has started to say awful things about himself. Today I noticed he had his jumper on back to front halfway school as he put his coat on as I made his lunch. He struggles to get fully dressed but he can manage most of it independently and sometimes gets things the wrong way round etc, so I said to him cheerily "shall we turn your jumper around before we go? It's not on quite right!"

He burst into tears and started pushing his forehead into the wall next to us which is just something he does so I put my hand in front of his head to protect it from the roughness of the brick and waited for him to be ready to come away. Eventually I said to him, "it's not easy getting yourself ready and you've done really well, even though your jumper is on backwards this time, you've got it right side out so don't be upset."

He responded with "I'm horrible and stupid, my remembering is useless and my work is rubbish and I'm silly and I wish I was dead"

I'm absolutely horrified that he's come out with this and want to know where he has heard it, and he says "I heard it in my head from myself" But what can I do to help? I don't want him to feel this way about himself as he's not stupid and he's not horrible he's polite and kind and sensitive and just does things a bit different, I'd be heartbroken if the teachers at school thought that I was saying these things to him Parents were glaring at me as they walked by just as he was speaking and I must be failing somewhere for him to be speaking like this

I was that boy, down to the head thumping. You are already doing better than most by caring what he feels about himself.

The problem is he's functional enough to know how non-functional he is, if you see what I mean. It will get harder as he gets older and more complex social situations arise in puberty. It's a tough time for everyone, but people who struggle with social stuff it's total misery.

It's great you already want to address this. Counseling worked for me, CBT to help develop coping strategies. School can't really help with the social things, but maybe ask the SEN team if he can have someone who can help him keep track of homework and in-school organisational issues. Best to get onto it now; arranging support was left a bit late in my case and had profoundly negative consequences.

You're doing the right thing by looking for advice and solutions and supporting your child by telling him you love him.

One of my DC says the same, and has for a while. Without having an answer on how to change it and with all understanding how hard it is to hear this, please don't make your first point of thought your own failing. That would only be productive if you had actually been telling him these things. However hard it is for you, it's going to be so much harder for him and he needs to know that his mum is solid, unfazed by his big feelings and there to guide him through it.

When my DC started saying he wants to be dead, I asked for a referral to CAMHS. They are now looking at psychotherapy or an ASD diagnosis. I've spoken to the SENCO and parent support worker in school many times, and he had emotional support interventions and is now in a learning programme that is very nurturing and all about building his resilience and faith in himself.

What helps most, though, is people supporting him through the wobbles as they happen, both me and teachers. Your answer to his sweater problem was exactly what I would have said. And my DC would have rejected it in the same way, but would have calmed down (at least somewhat) after that. Same with him saying he wants to be dead. Sometimes I hug him and say that must be such a painful feeling to have and he must feel really bad to be wanting that. Sometimes I tell him that i would miss him way too much. Sometimes I tell him that he is not the only one who feels like that when they've made a mistake, but that it's a feeling that will come and go like all other feelings. Mostly, I try to be there for him, hold him (physically or emotionally) and let him ride out his feelings. (And then go hug someone myself when he's not there and bang on all professional doors, because hearing your child say that is the most awful thing . Also, to those glaring parents. They are not important).

DS has said similar. stupid, my remembering is useless and my work is rubbish is stuff other kids at school have said to him

Seems to me you handled it well. I'd also try to get an appointment with his teacher to see just how "bad" it is for him with all the organisation, dressing etc and what can be done to simplify things for him.

The SENCO at the school has been unhelpful all the way through to be honest. Throughout our journey for diagnosis which has taken over 5 years, and ended up having to be a diagnosis agreed between a SALT, Paediatrician and his old nursery teacher for support with explaining how my son was in his early years in a multi disciplinary meeting. because the school would not refer to educational psychologist to get it moved along. The senco has always maintained a snidy undercurrent of insinuating that I am a liar, and was close friends with his reception year class teacher and the head teacher so I couldn't get any support there regards to seeing an educational psychologist as they simply ganged up in a discrete fashion, wouldn't refer. Instead, they referred me to social services because I was apparently not feeding him properly despite being under a dietician.

His first year teacher noticed something was wrong, and tried her best to support me but it was simply so slow my son moved out of her class into second year, who also did her best to be supportive. We had the multi disciplinary meeting during this year and he received his DX, for ASD, SPD and a mild learning difficulty, to the annoyance of the SENCO as she seems to think I am lying as my son presents himself much better at school than he does at home, but I thought this was fairly par for the course for many children with ASD

Despite receiving a diagnosis the school are continuing with this approach, the SENCO ignores me, has cancelled two meetings with me when I desperately want to discuss an EHCP for him as he's being left behind, he tells me he hates school and it's hard and he doesn't understand the teachers' instructions and I think this is why he feels like hes "stupid", and I want better support for him, and so a few weeks ago I took the decision to arrange to move house and get into the catchment for a school with better support for those with special needs. A smaller school, with smaller classes.

If the school will neither support him nor me, I cannot support him alone. I feel like I'm floundering. I don't really think there's a point to my writing I'm just rambling

But I hope that moving away from this school will be a good move for him, even though I know it will be unsettling

Sorry, @ByeGermsByeWorries, I didn't realise you'd been through all the mills already.

Moving schools seems to be working for mine. The pressure of having to perform in class and other children being noisy and finding him odd was making him too anxious to learn and by the end aggressive. His current programme has the same curriculum but much less kids and a very calm, nursery-like environment, which has reduced his sensory overload. And the children have a lot of control over how they learn, which gives him the space to manage his anxieties. He's found the change tricky, but much less than I'd expected because he's finding the school day itself so much easier than before.

I found it quite hard to make the decision because there is a limit to how much newness hé can handle. But it's been good so far and by the sounds of it, your DS doesn't have much to lose at his current school either Has he said anything about wanting to move school? Mine came up with the idea himself, which has helped a lot to make him feel in control of the process.

He hasn't specifically asked to move, I'm not sure it was something that would occur to him naturally as a possibility as it's a bit complex for him to grasp on his own just yet, so he didn't as me, however I have brought it up to him and asked if he would like to try a different school,and he didn't display any major distress at that, just wanted to know if the new school would have grass

Given a lot of notice, so for instance, reminding every day for a couple of weeks and giving a countdown,would greatly ease any anxiety or discomfort for him as he can accept plans if they are in advance and he knows it is happening way ahead and has time to ask questions, see photos etc.

I just want to make sure he is getting the help and level of work that is right for him, I don't want him telling me he thinks he's stupid because he isn't getting the right support in class. I think it will resolve other problems as well, as alot of the kids in his class who he has tried to befriend at some point get fed up with trying to play with him due to his comprehension being poor so he doesn't understand the game rules etc and so they tend to leave him out now. He's never even had an invite to a birthday party because he couldn't cope with the noise, but this has kind of isolated him further among the other kids.

you've got it right side out so don't be upset

but he was upset - which is ok - and part of ordinary life - so maybe say 'its ok to be upset' or 'i can see you are upset' as usually when our emotions are recognised and validated we can accept them and move on into the next one.

It's not on quite right!

not quite right is a bit the same as saying 'you've got it/done it wrong' so perhaps consider other ways of saying this too even though I can see you are someone who does think through what you are saying and the way that you say it.

Try to avoid should and don't as they tend to confirm the negative when its obvious you are trying hard to focus on the positive.

stupid, my remembering is useless and my work is rubbish is stuff other kids at school have said to him

We had that too, alongside 'you're useless, you're a baby' due to emotional immaturity. And to add to the joys, never picked for teams, no-one ever wanted to be the partner for anything and left out of birthday invites but made to know they'd been left out. I was in the school cloakroom and heard one kid say 'It's my birthday and you're not coming' and another time another kid was giving out invites and saying 'Hope you can come' to the other kids then tore my dd's invite up in front of her and said 'I don't want you there' Being alone on the playground every day as well.

Not all primary schools are good for kids with SN. Some SENCOs are
rubbish. Some refuse to believe the actions I've described are bullying.

Please remove your son from that toxic atmosphere.

My DS (now 28) has ASD and firstly I want to reassure you that you're doing a good job. Nothing about how he feels is down to anything you have done/not done. I feel it's very common in ASD kids to feel this way. My son has been like this many times. Honestly your love and support will be the two most important things that help him through difficult times. You are not failing him at all so please don't feel that way.

The thing I found that worked best with my son is to let him have his upset times. It seemed to me that telling him "you're not stupid" etc whilst he was in the middle of it somehow ramped it up more. So I tended to just let him get it out of his system, not comment on it, but instead give loads of praise and encouragement at other times. When he stopped being upset I'd ask if he was ok, give him a hug, ask him if he wanted to talk about anything etc. I think, in the moment, they just can't think straight.

I think the change of school will be good too. My DS ended up changing to a SEN secondary and it was much better for him than a normal high school, that was a disaster!

We still have odd moments at this age! Yesterday he was having a bit of a depressive phase about something but he seems to be able to just brush it off a lot easier now. When I saw him this afternoon he was fine and cheery again. It is a long road, but it will get better. Just keep being the mum you are being and he will be absolutely fine.

SimplePimple Thanks, I did try to think about not being overly negative about what I said but I'm still learning about ASD and sometimes struggle with how to word things, so your advice is helpful.

BlankTimes It is spitefulness and bullying and I can see now that this is probably where my son is headed given that he spends most playtimes alone This particular SENCO is not helping get him the support he needs, I know he's not in need of as much assistance as some of the children who are struggling with more serious things but he still needs much more help compared to the other children in his class. I don't know why she's taken a dislike to us from the beginning but it's time to find a new one.

Storm4Star As I said to simplepimple all your advice is really helpful. I don't really have any experience either with children or asd, so I'm still trying to find the right things to say and when, we are just muddling along as best as I can at the moment, I need to try and see if there are any courses or groups locally etc I could access to arm myself with more strategies.

It doesn't sound like the school is being very supportive. Does he have some close friends you could arrange playdates with (DD1 found her own bday parties too much).

With the uniform, sometimes the simplest thing such as how you lay out clothes can help. Underwear, then socks, then laying clothes upside down so they are picking it up in the order it would face so they done have to look at changing it round.

FaggotsandGreyPeas He doesn't have any friends unfortunately. I don't know any other people with children his age except his cousin who has moved quite far so he only really has me and DP. The school I am trying to get to has a much better SENCO provision with a smaller side class just for children with SEN so hopefully he would be in a class with children that were of more similar ability and understanding and make some friends in there.

Plus we will be closer to his cousin, and also his biological father who could take him to visit the children of his side of the family for company. It's all positives currently.

This sounds hard, so I don't mean to sound abrupt, but agree with simple pimple. I don't think that type of empathy and understanding should be different whether asd or not.

Op I haven't read the entire thread but does your son have an education health care plan? If the school won't apply for this...you can do it yourself

Following on from this thread I have had to remove my son from school 2 weeks early. After having an understanding in place about my son's sensory issues around eating, and having the dietician write to the school and explain why the contents of his lunchbox are necessary to ensure he is having something to eat during the day, he came out crying yesterday afternoon having been told by a dinner lady that his lunch was unhealthy and if he brought the same again he would be made to have a school dinner and his food confiscated.

Due to his autism and sensory disorder, he has a very restricted diet, he only eats one type of cereal, one brand of chicken nugget, toast, one brand of bread which is brown, one brand of butter, crisps, crackers, biscuits (not chocolate ones, he doesn't like chocolate) yoyo fruit rolls, and orange jelly.

Yesterday's lunchbox consisted of a thinly spread jam sandwich on brown bread, a carton of pure apple juice, a fruit roll, a handful of crisps, a sugar free jelly, and a mini jammy dodger. Before the dietician wrote to the school a while back, the teacher, who is the one who tried to scupper diagnosis in the first place because she does not believe in mental illnesses, kept reporting me saying I was not feeding my child properly and that he was just fussy and would eat "proper food" if he was truly hungry.

Back to yesterday and had a quick word with the headteacher as my son is now afraid to go back to school with his lunch in case the dinner lady comes at him again. the headteacher's response was "oh well, I'm not in there you see so it's for the lunchtime staff to decide based on school policy"

I removed him with immediate effect. How can I send my child to school knowing he is afraid to eat his food? With moving to the new school in 2 weeks being stressful enough I'm worried that forcing him to see the last 2 weeks out will send him over the edge. I hope I've made the right choice.

You have. Good luck with the move!